Denny Crane and the Second Amendment

[noonereal]

If I was a gun enthusiast I would not worry about anyone taking them away. If it ever does happen it will not be in our lifetime.

Obie has too much on the table and most anti gun types (myself included) have it to far down the list of things the government needs to address to ever make any real noise about it. Heck, if I weren't fillin' time I would not have even jumped into this thread.

[Charles]

Originally Posted by noonereal

If I was a gun enthusiast I would not worry about anyone taking them away. If it ever does happen it will not be in our lifetime.

Obie has too much on the table and most anti gun types (myself included) have it to far down the list of things the government needs to address to ever make any real noise about it. Heck, if I weren't fillin' time I would not have even jumped into this thread.

Noonereal, I believe you've put it in a nutshell.

That's what we're all doin', fillin' time, killin' time, poppin' off at the mouth, gettin' it off our chests, like anyone really cares.

All this damn internet is, is a CB with unlimited range. Only instead of the 10 code, you use, I want to call it formatting, but I'm wrong...someone help me out.

Now I've got a CB in my boat, but I've never used one. I'll have to admit, after listening to the traffic on it, you meet more interesting people on the internet.

I can pretty much tell that we are 180 out politically, but I like ya.

You take care, and have a good day, we'll see if we can't come to loggerheads over some political moot point in the near future.

Gotta go grill some burgers,
Chas

[Ozmoid]

Originally Posted by noonereal

I am not buying what you are selling.

What I'm selling is that there are many weapons out there besides guns, and many of them aren't marketed as weapons. Think a nut with a Paslode Nail Gun is any less of a threat than a nut with a .22 pistol? Might have a shorter lethal range, but you would still be dead.

We need to outlaw crowbars, tire irons, hammers, adjustable wrenches... basically anything made out of more than an ounce or two of metal. Any piece of lumber longer than a foot. Pocket knives, box cutters, steak knives... ball point pens are kind of stabby too, aren't they? Better take those out of play. Pencils also while I'm thinking about it. IMO, this is the path that opens up with the removal of firearms from the general public.

I know it is cliché, but if guns are outlawed you better believe that only criminals and LEA/military will have them. Not nearly enough checks and balances in that equation.

I have never aimed a firearm in the direction of another human, and hope I am never called upon to do so. My firearm fills my freezer with food and contributes to controlling the wild animal population within Dept. of Fish and Game regulations. (This alone is a valid reason for firearms... if you don't think so, stop all types of hunting for a few years. )

District Attorney David Prater said Ersland was justified in shooting Parker once in the head, but went too far when he shot Parker five more times while Parker lay unconscious on the floor.

And there you have it - stupidity in play. I had to change the regulators on all my gas cylinders a few years back, because some idiot that didn't know what he was doing blew himself up. Same thing here - sanity seems to have flown right out the window.

[Charles]

Oz, you WERE wearing safety glasses when you changed those regulators, weren't you?

I'd to be the one who had to turn you over to an alphabet agency for endangering your own welfare, but since it's in your best interest....

Chas

[Ozmoid]

Originally Posted by Charles

Oz, you WERE wearing safety glasses when you changed those regulators, weren't you?

Well OF COURSE I WAS, Charles. Used a rubber-coated wrench too. Just in case.

[wajobu]

Monkey wrench: I still don't understand how and why assault weapons are needed for hunting.

[Sandy G]

They aren't. Those of us who have them do because we just have a "thing" for them, I guess. Functionally, "assault weapons" are NO different than any other semi-automatic gun. I kinda get into the historical aspects of the ones I have-f'r instance, I have several examples of FAL rifles-the 7.62 Nato firing gun that was called "The Free World's Right Arm", as it was eventually used by 94 countries thruout the world. America was one of the few countries that DIDN't use them. Or the Avtomat Kalashnikova 1947- the AK-47- the Combloc's answer to the FAL, & eventually our M-16. Or my Uzi- the only REAL "Assault Weapon" I have, as its fully automatic-It was developed in the late 1940s by an Isreali, Maj. Uziel Gal. He was a quiet, self-effacing man, who really didn't want the gun named after him, but it just kinda stuck. Nobody really NEEDs any of these things, I guess, but nobody NEEDS a car that goes 150, or nobody really needs a Mac Kilowatt system, either-But they sure are a lot of fun for their aficianados to have.

[soundhound]

Originally Posted by noonereal

There has not been one post in this thread that has offered any valid reason to continue to have weapons available to the general public.

there have been several valid reasons given:

1) personal defense
2) hunting
3) sport (target practice)

the forefathers included the 2nd ammendment, i think, because they wanted to be able to protect themselves against their own government. and there's not a chance in hell of anyone invading the united states as long as such a large portion of the population is armed.

i haven't seen one valid reason why guns should NOT be possessed by citizens.

[Charles]

The 2nd amendment is a constitutional right. Not a reason, a right.

Not to ruffle any feathers, but I've always been amazed at people who defend every right in the Bill of Rights, EXCEPT the 2nd. The 2nd amendment is the right which guarantees all the others.

Now I can understand how some folks are uncomfortable around firearms, or just don't like them at all. But don't be too quick about giving up yet another constitutional right.

Should we lose the 2nd amendment, the only people in possession of firearms with be the criminals, and the politicians. Does anyone really want to put themselves in this position?

Personally, I sleep better at night knowing that there are millions of good, decent Americans who bear arms. They won't rob me, or murder me, or grind me under the heel of their boot. And should anyone else try, I'm sure that a great deal of them would be there to help.

My 2 cents,
Chas

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by soundhound

there have been several valid reasons given:

1) personal defense
2) hunting
3) sport (target practice)

the forefathers included the 2nd ammendment, i think, because they wanted to be able to protect themselves against their own government. and there's not a chance in hell of anyone invading the united states as long as such a large portion of the population is armed.

i haven't seen one valid reason why guns should NOT be possessed by citizens.

Thanks for the reply, here's my take.

You say valid reasons have been offered, I disagree.
1) personal defense
I have addressed this twice in the thread already. Long story short, the very, very rare case where a gun actually helps or saves people from crime is far exceeded by the slaughter incurred by guns.
2) hunting and 3) sport (target practice)
First I will say these are the same. No one needs to hunt to eat. I could expand on this considerably but don't feel it is needed. (If you prefer a fuller explanation just reply and I will expand.)
As they are not needed and guns do cause so much grief, this becomes an invalid reason to me. I would have no objection to sporting clubs, I think it would even be a good idea. It would need to be tightly controlled.

You then make a point about protection against the government and foreign entities. My feeling is that this need is long gone. Here in 2009 a gun will not stop either.

I base my opinion on the gun issue based on two factors, personal experience and intellectual though, just like you do. Clearly we come away with different conclusions. I resubmit my personal experience here. Given this and the fact that from all I have read and heard my experiences seem very representative of gun use in todays sociaty.
Given this, why would I support guns?


My personal experiences with guns,

Twice I have been threatened with a gun.
twice mistaken intent.

I have also seen guns pulled as a drunken threat twice and fired as a warning to barking dogs in the middle of the night.



family members involved with guns

Two dead,
one drug induced murder (between two friends), one death over a girl between cousins (mental illness)




Children with guns:

We have a next store neighbor who since the age of 10 has been shooting guns at targets with no supervision. He is know to be "slow" and a disciplinary problem. It makes for an uncomfortable situation.

There is a child at school who is always talking about guns and killings. Off school grounds he is know to have constant access to guns.




I know of no one who has ever used a gun in self defense.

It is no longer 1776, I don't support guns.