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  #11  
Old 04-10-2011, 11:42 AM
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BlueStreak BlueStreak is offline
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Originally Posted by whell View Post
Whoa, we agree!

The current collective bargaining process usually begins with individuals within a work group working to increase the interest amongst their co-workers about unionizing. Of course, representatives from one or more unions assist in steering the process. Interested employees are asked to sign cards that state they want to be represented by a union. If at least a third of the employees in the potential bargaining unit sign the cards, the union can request that the NLRB certify the bargaining unit and request an election.

Card check circumvents the election process and and the bargaining unit be certified, and collective bargaining can commence without a secret ballot vote.

Neither process assures anonymity by the way. Under the current process, if a union official presents the signed cards to a company official, and the company official accepts them, it is possible that the act of accepting the signed cards could circumvent the secret ballot process.
Correct. Collective Bargaining with a 33% card return? Even as a labor supporter, I just can't see that as fair.

Dave
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  #12  
Old 04-10-2011, 06:11 PM
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bhunter bhunter is offline
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I'm interested in the structure of unions and their procedures. A recommended book or website perhaps.

Can a business refuse to use union labor despite a vote by the employees for the union? Once a union is operating within an industry, how difficult is it to eliminate the union in that industry? Do unions support merit systems for raises and salaries or primarily seniority systems? What fee percentages do unions typically charge and why do unions want the employer to collect the fee?
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Last edited by bhunter; 04-10-2011 at 06:16 PM.
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  #13  
Old 04-10-2011, 06:46 PM
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I'll let D-Ray answer those questions.

Dave
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  #14  
Old 04-11-2011, 08:10 AM
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merrylander merrylander is offline
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Originally Posted by bhunter View Post
I'm interested in the structure of unions and their procedures. A recommended book or website perhaps.

Can a business refuse to use union labor despite a vote by the employees for the union? Once a union is operating within an industry, how difficult is it to eliminate the union in that industry? Do unions support merit systems for raises and salaries or primarily seniority systems? What fee percentages do unions typically charge and why do unions want the employer to collect the fee?
Back in the day I was a sub rep with the union. During a discussion with some management the subject of one employee's job performance came up. The supervisor said "well if he does not shape up he will be terminated in six months". I said "Fair enough, once you have told him it is shape up or ship out, it is up to him". The super's boss said "Oh we can't tell him that." I looked at him and said "Are you nuts? He probably thinks he is doing an allright job, if you don't say anything why in hell would he change."

Yeah I was mouthy then too, but the problem is not always the union's fault.
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Last edited by merrylander; 04-11-2011 at 11:23 AM.
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  #15  
Old 04-11-2011, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by merrylander View Post
Back in the day I was a sub rep with the union. During a discussion with some management the subject of one employees job performance came up. The supervisore said "well if he does not shape up he will be terminated in six months". I said "Fair enough, once you have told him it is shape up or ship out, it is up to hem". The super's boss said "Oh we can't tell him that." I looked at him and said "Are you nuts? He probably thinks he is doing an allright job, if you don't say anything why in hell would he change."

Yeah I was mouthy then too, but the problem is not always the union's fault.
Maybe they were playing out rope for someone they didn't like for other reasons?
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  #16  
Old 04-11-2011, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhunter View Post
I'm interested in the structure of unions and their procedures. A recommended book or website perhaps.

Can a business refuse to use union labor despite a vote by the employees for the union? Once a union is operating within an industry, how difficult is it to eliminate the union in that industry? Do unions support merit systems for raises and salaries or primarily seniority systems? What fee percentages do unions typically charge and why do unions want the employer to collect the fee?
Here's as good a place to start as any. It provides a copy of the NLRA and discusses how the NLRB administers the Act.

http://www.nlrb.gov/

Regarding your questions:

A company can't refuse to bargain with a union once a bargaining unit has voted in favor of representation. However, while the NLRA requires the union and the company to bargain, it does not require the two parties to agree on anything. Generally, binding arbitration is used in public sector, not private sector, union contracts. It has happened where bargaining was commenced but no contract resulted (and the union eventually was de-certified by the employees), but it doesn't happen often: the process is ugly and requires deep pockets.

The process for de-certification of a union is similar to certification: as long as 30% of the employees in the bargaining unit sign a petition to de-certify the union, the NLRB will hold another secret ballot election, and the majority of employees must vote to de-certify. De-certification elections can't happen within one year of the initial secret ballot election that certified the union as the representative of the bargaining unit.

Regarding merit pay, this is typically non-existent in union contracts. Seniority in a particular job is the typical determinant of wage rates.

The provision for unions dues withheld from wages is called check-off, and is typically one of the first items that the union wants to agree upon in any contract negotiations. Without check-off, I suspect most unions would find consistent collection of dues very challenging, particularly in "right to work" states. As far as dues, rates very widely by industry and by the type of jobs within represented within a particular bargaining unit. A rough average is typically about two hours per month in wages based on the average hourly rate within the bargaining unit.

Last edited by whell; 04-11-2011 at 01:01 PM.
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  #17  
Old 04-11-2011, 10:50 AM
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Yeah I was mouthy then too, but the problem is not always the union's fault.
True that. Many supervisors / managers are very good. The dopey ones do provide me some job security.
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  #18  
Old 04-11-2011, 11:20 AM
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Regarding merit pay, this is typically non-existent in union contracts. Seniority in a particular job is the typical determinant of wage rates.
This is also true.

However, my experiences with merit pay systems, even when they have benefited me, is that they usually end up corrupted by "good ol' boy" networks and lead to internal strife. This is why most of the non-union shops I've worked in opted out of "merit pay" systems, and why union shops oppose them. It often leads to more drama and corrupt workplace politics.

Dave
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  #19  
Old 04-11-2011, 11:21 AM
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True that. Many supervisors / managers are very good. The dopey ones do provide me some job security.
What exactly is it that you do, anyways?

Dave
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  #20  
Old 04-11-2011, 11:27 AM
noonereal noonereal is offline
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What exactly is it that you do, anyways?

Dave
he's a GOP strategist ala Rove
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