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Old 04-10-2011, 05:22 AM
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Union Ballots

Why are unions against secret ballots? I can see no logical reason for having open ballots other than for exposing those voting against the union. I'm not familiar with union election processes, but wouldn't open voting also expose pro-union voters to management?
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Old 04-10-2011, 08:55 AM
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I was not aware of any union espousing open ballots. I believe management would like the idea.
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Old 04-10-2011, 09:12 AM
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They're not. That's a myth.

What they are against is management deliberately dragging out the process so they have more time to hold multiple meetings and intimidate employees. I've even witnessed police, sent by local politicians, provoking violence with strikers undoubtedly at the behest of coal company execs. Gotta do what we can to promote good relations with private industry after all. Even if a few noses get bloodied in the process, dontcha know.

Go ahead, disagree. Tell me I'm lying, whatever, I don't care. I know how it (really) works, I've been there and seen it with my own eyes. That's one of the reasons I didn't score further to the right on that little test we took. Seeing the truth about who "bullies" who will do that to you.

Dave
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Last edited by BlueStreak; 04-10-2011 at 09:27 AM.
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Old 04-10-2011, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merrylander View Post
I was not aware of any union espousing open ballots. I believe management would like the idea.
Yes, they would love that. Because then they would know exactly who to "lean on", or get rid of. Here's what happens outside of the conservative fantasy world where all businessmen have wings and wear halos; Snitches run their mouths, management finds excuses, people get fired, and unions lose more elections. That's why they need the drawn out process of waiting for the NLRB to schedule an election. It's more time to intimidate and file law suits. Nothing more.

There should be a secret ballot election, but it should happen in a timely manner. Not months down the road so supervisors have more time to can people.

Dave
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Last edited by BlueStreak; 04-10-2011 at 09:28 AM.
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Old 04-10-2011, 09:33 AM
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I think the issue at hand is "card check." I don't know enough about it, but on its face I think I oppose it. A secret, timely ballot seems the only fair way IMHO.

dRay (and others) - what's your vibe on Card Check?
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Old 04-10-2011, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merrylander View Post
I was not aware of any union espousing open ballots. I believe management would like the idea.
Secret ballot is the current process. Card check, or the elimination of the secret ballot process, is the process current being pursued by big labor.
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Old 04-10-2011, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by whell View Post
Secret ballot is the current process. Card check, or the elimination of the secret ballot process, is the process current being pursued by big labor.
This is what I found with a quick search,

"Card check neutrality agreements include the provision that the employer will recognize the union without a costly and time consuming election if the majority of workers sign a petition or authorization cards indicating their support of the union.

Recently, those who oppose workers having the ability to organize have attempted to portray card check neutrality agreements as somehow undemocratic. Simply put, standard union elections and the pressures that workers are subject to from their employers, are as democratic as a stereotypical election in which only a dictator is running."
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Old 04-10-2011, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finnbow View Post
I think the issue at hand is "card check." I don't know enough about it, but on its face I think I oppose it. A secret, timely ballot seems the only fair way IMHO.

dRay (and others) - what's your vibe on Card Check?
Whoa, we agree!

The current collective bargaining process usually begins with individuals within a work group working to increase the interest amongst their co-workers about unionizing. Of course, representatives from one or more unions assist in steering the process. Interested employees are asked to sign cards that state they want to be represented by a union. If at least a third of the employees in the potential bargaining unit sign the cards, the union can request that the NLRB certify the bargaining unit and request an election.

Card check circumvents the election process and and the bargaining unit be certified, and collective bargaining can commence without a secret ballot vote.

Neither process assures anonymity by the way. Under the current process, if a union official presents the signed cards to a company official, and the company official accepts them, it is possible that the act of accepting the signed cards could circumvent the secret ballot process.
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Old 04-10-2011, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finnbow View Post
I think the issue at hand is "card check." I don't know enough about it, but on its face I think I oppose it. A secret, timely ballot seems the only fair way IMHO.

dRay (and others) - what's your vibe on Card Check?
If they could actually get a "timely" secret ballot which apparently seems to be impossible else why come up with the card check idea? If the worker has to sign the card they are wide open for retaliation. As to the NLRB maybe that's why all the workers there said "Ciao Chao" after the 2008 elections.

It always amuses me when anti free traders say "First they must adopt out labour laws." We have labour laws? WHo knew?
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Old 04-10-2011, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finnbow View Post
I think the issue at hand is "card check." I don't know enough about it, but on its face I think I oppose it. A secret, timely ballot seems the only fair way IMHO.

dRay (and others) - what's your vibe on Card Check?
I oppose it, because it makes it too easy for the unions to misbehave. The purpose of the cards is to demonstrate to the NLRB that there is sufficient interest to hold an election. Some in organized labor say that a card return of more than 51% is a majority vote. I dunno. The secret ballot is still the best way to gauge true sentiment, IMO. In my final analysis, I'd say the system should stay as is, but with some "streamlining" to make it a quicker process.
More time=More time for both sides to play politics.

However, having said that, if a "Card Check" demonstrates a CLEAR majority, of say 66%, or higher, or shows a CLEAR lack of interest, say 33% or lower........................Why bother with an election?

Dave
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Last edited by BlueStreak; 04-10-2011 at 11:43 AM.
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