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  #21  
Old 05-24-2017, 11:11 AM
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Pio1980 Pio1980 is offline
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Not to mention cost of paying stockholders.
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  #22  
Old 05-24-2017, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by whell View Post
Sorry, but here's some "crap" for you, the source is from Federal Reserve Economic Data / St Louis Federal Reserve

https://blogs-images.forbes.com/mike....jpg?width=960



Why is it axiomatic among the left that a reduction in spending in welfare MUST result in a reduction in benefits paid? Just above in this thread, it was observed how politics intervenes in properly addressing wasteful defense spending. The same politics also intervenes discussing reductions in welfare spending. Articles like those below appear from time to time, but we lack the political will to address the core issues, and the waste continues. In fact, in the article below, the GAO admits they don't even know how to correctly quantify the degree of waste in this case:

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Articl...l-Programs-GAO

The federal government has no idea how many tax dollars it’s wasting on redundant federal programs every year—but it’s likely in the neighborhood of $45 billion.

That’s according to the Government Accountability Office, which identified more than two dozen new areas of inefficiency and overlap in its annual report to Congress. This is on top of the more than 160 redundant areas that the GAO has identified in its three previous reports.

“It's impossible to account for how much money is wasted through duplication, in part because the government doesn't keep track of which programs each agency is responsible for
,” Comptroller Gene Dodaro said prepared congressional testimony.
[/B]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.036ab17056d6

For every given problem, there are often several, if not dozens, of programs intended to tackle it. There isn't just one health care program -- there are Medicaid, Medicare, SCHIP the Affordable Care Act insurance subsidies, the employer insurance deduction, etc. There isn't just one higher education subsidy -- there are the American Opportunity credit, Pell grants, Perkins loans, Stafford loans, etc. And that's not even every federal program that serves those two sectors.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...grams/7435221/

It takes 10 different offices at the Department of Health and Human Services to run programs addressing AIDS in minority communities. Autism research is spread out over 11 different agencies. Eight agencies at the Defense Department are looking for prisoners of war and missing in action. And Schriever Air Force Base in Colorado has eight different satellite control centers to control 10 satellite programs.

Now, when you read stuff like this, it sounds like absolute idiocy in action. But it has been going on for years, wasting trillions of dollars in the process. No one is accountable because accountability is buried in politics. There's no collective political will to fix any of this, so it just gets worse, and the budget for most of these agencies goes up every year triggering even more waste.

And guess who pays for it: you and me. IMHO, its idiotic to bray about "cuts" when looking at all of this collective waste. There is absolutely no reason it needs to continue. We can do better.


Whell, I'm not disputing there is waste in gov just has there is waste in any operation.

But, I have been working for twenty years securing federal funds for social services delivered at the local level and I can tell you that in reality, funding for social services have been pretty much stagnant since the Clinton administration.

By the way, anyone with basic math skills can use data to make what ever point they want to regardless of reality.

I can also tell you that during the Obama administration, a new kind of transparency was added to the requirements for funding for social services which makes those in the delivery system far more accountable.

Google all you want, but I live this every day and I know what I see.
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  #23  
Old 05-24-2017, 12:23 PM
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whell whell is offline
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Originally Posted by donquixote99 View Post
Larger private organizations are also inherently wasteful. For example, I know a mega-corporation that paid $4000 to put a new transmission in an old beat-up van worth about $1000 when the transmission worked.

Same outfit spent at least $200K setting up a mechanized facility to load retail containers from bulk, then abandoned the operation because there was no money to fix a compressor.
No, large private organizations are not inherently wasteful. Some large private and public organizations are highly efficient. Just because you can site one organization that appears wasteful cannot be a blanket indictment on all private or public companies.
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  #24  
Old 05-24-2017, 12:25 PM
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whell whell is offline
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Originally Posted by barbara View Post
Whell, I'm not disputing there is waste in gov just has there is waste in any operation.

But, I have been working for twenty years securing federal funds for social services delivered at the local level and I can tell you that in reality, funding for social services have been pretty much stagnant since the Clinton administration.

By the way, anyone with basic math skills can use data to make what ever point they want to regardless of reality.

I can also tell you that during the Obama administration, a new kind of transparency was added to the requirements for funding for social services which makes those in the delivery system far more accountable.

Google all you want, but I live this every day and I know what I see.
Fine. But you didn't address the central point of the post.
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  #25  
Old 05-24-2017, 12:31 PM
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finnbow finnbow is offline
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Originally Posted by whell View Post
More of your myopic, twisted BS, Finn. The Pentagon is as prolific as any other part of gov't when it comes to wasting money. Its also apparently lost on you that members of both parties scream like stuck pigs when it comes to closing a military base or cutting a military project that's financially beneficial to that congressperson's home district.

What's dead on arrival is your sense of reality.
As usual, you are woefully misinformed.

The U.S. military is good at fighting wars, but it sucks at managing money. Partly because of its convoluted bookkeeping systems, $8.5 trillion—yes, trillion—taxpayer dollars doled out by Congress since 1996 has never been accounted for.
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2015/0...Defense-Budget

Senior defense officials suppressed a study documenting $125 billion worth of administrative waste at the Pentagon out of fears that Congress would use its findings to cut the defense budget, the Washington Post reported late Monday.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016...-in-waste.html

Also, I'll happily bet you $100 that Trump's budget will not pass as written. I'll even go anywhere up to $10k on the bet. Put your money where your mouth is.
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Last edited by finnbow; 05-24-2017 at 12:49 PM.
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  #26  
Old 05-24-2017, 12:50 PM
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donquixote99 donquixote99 is offline
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Originally Posted by whell View Post
No, large private organizations are not inherently wasteful. Some large private and public organizations are highly efficient. Just because you can site one organization that appears wasteful cannot be a blanket indictment on all private or public companies.
Says the guy who had just issued a blanket indictment of government organizations.

Public or private, the right answer on wasteful is 'some are, some aren't.'
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  #27  
Old 05-24-2017, 02:36 PM
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whell whell is offline
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Originally Posted by finnbow View Post
As usual, you are woefully misinformed.

The U.S. military is good at fighting wars, but it sucks at managing money. Partly because of its convoluted bookkeeping systems, $8.5 trillion—yes, trillion—taxpayer dollars doled out by Congress since 1996 has never been accounted for.
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2015/0...Defense-Budget

Senior defense officials suppressed a study documenting $125 billion worth of administrative waste at the Pentagon out of fears that Congress would use its findings to cut the defense budget, the Washington Post reported late Monday.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016...-in-waste.html

Also, I'll happily bet you $100 that Trump's budget will not pass as written. I'll even go anywhere up to $10k on the bet. Put your money where your mouth is.
Nothing that you posted is at odds with what I've posted. Nothing.

Also, most budgets that Prezes submit are not "passed as written".

Got any original thoughts floating around in your head?
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  #28  
Old 05-24-2017, 02:39 PM
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whell whell is offline
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Originally Posted by donquixote99 View Post
Says the guy who had just issued a blanket indictment of government organizations.

Public or private, the right answer on wasteful is 'some are, some aren't.'
Yup, that's what I did. Yup, every time someone suggests that governments should control spending - particularly those parts of gov't that dole out "benefits" - spend less, reduce in scope, whatever, folks on your side of the aisle scream like stuck pigs.

Nothing new here. Let's move along.
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  #29  
Old 05-24-2017, 03:41 PM
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donquixote99 donquixote99 is offline
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Originally Posted by whell View Post
Yup, that's what I did. Yup, every time someone suggests that governments should control spending - particularly those parts of gov't that dole out "benefits" - spend less, reduce in scope, whatever, folks on your side of the aisle scream like stuck pigs.

Nothing new here. Let's move along.
Got that right--just the usual lies and insults from you.
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  #30  
Old 05-24-2017, 04:54 PM
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finnbow finnbow is offline
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Originally Posted by whell View Post
Got any original thoughts floating around in your head?
Asks the dittohead.
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