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  #41  
Old 04-19-2012, 10:28 PM
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BlueStreak BlueStreak is offline
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Yeah, I know. But, it's fun......know what I mean?
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  #42  
Old 04-20-2012, 06:56 AM
Charles Charles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueStreak View Post
Obviously, the best way to abandon them is to allow them to choose our leaders for us, give them fat tax cuts and dismantle the regulations they bitch about.

Yeah, that'll show them.

Just who is it you guys see as being "the wealthy elite" anyways? You moan when we decry the excesses of Wall Street bankers, howl when we point to the insatible greed of corporations, gasp when we ridicule the Koch Brothers, scream about "market forces" when we blame oil executives for the price of gas (Or try to turn it around and blame it on the prez, especially if he is a Dem.)....................

Wall Street high rollers, large corporations, billionaires, oil companies........................

If that isn't the "wealthy elite", then who is, Chas?

If the goverment is bought and paid for, then just who is it that doin' the buying? Tell me, who has their hands up the puppets ass?

You? Me? Little old Ladies drawing Social Security? The janitors union?

Say something mean about a wealthy businessman or a large corporation and a Republican will throw himself on the grenade everytime.

And yet it us "lefties" with our labor unions and our environmentalists and our Occupy protesters that suck up to the rich.

Sorry, but I'm just not buying it. It has all of the characterisitics of Grade 'A' bullshit.

Dave
Pretty much all of the above, including their puppets, and their regulatory agencies.

I'll admit, I'm more caustic towards the international bankers and wall street executives who survive by manipulating the wealth of the nation, and friendlier towards the corporations which produce the widgets we need and use...thus creating the wealth of the nation.

As far as the Koch boys go, I'm not so much defending them as attacking the myopic view from the left that only right leaning corporations are capable of stealing the cat food money from the little old green haired ladies, while those from the left are a cross between Horatio at the bridge and Robin Hood, saving us from the conservative horde while stealing our money for our own good.

Labor unions? I'm in favor of unions, more so in private industry than in the government. By and large they've been good for the common man, even though they do tend to pull the ladder up behind themselves, and have been found to be corrupt enough times that I don't particularly view their leaders as knights in shining armor.

The occupy crowd? By and large I liked their message (which I've said several times), but thought their tactics left much to be desired.

I need to go to work, so I'm going to wrap this up. I think I see more gray area than perhaps you. Besides, you have a way of taking what I say and creating a new, and often contradictory, statement, which you then attack.

And Ms Rand's point was that the powerful need our labor to make them powerful. Her basic premise was that if we refuse to do their dirty work, even to the point of taking up substance farming if necessary, we have effectively robbed them of their power.

They can't very well destroy the world without our help, now can they?

Chas
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  #43  
Old 04-20-2012, 07:33 AM
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piece-itpete piece-itpete is offline
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Sure we did, they let us vote!!!

Chas
True that, to a degree. But our vote is vetted, at least now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles View Post
....
As far as the Koch boys go, I'm not so much defending them as attacking the myopic view from the left that only right leaning corporations are capable of stealing the cat food money from the little old green haired ladies, while those from the left are a cross between Horatio at the bridge and Robin Hood, saving us from the conservative horde while stealing our money for our own good.

.....
LMAO! Their Chinese child labor is happier, knowing folks who speak nice platitudes crack the whip.

Pete
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  #44  
Old 04-20-2012, 09:25 AM
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Okay, however you want to try and explain your way around it.

What I keep hearing and seeing is that if we don't lighten the load on "the job creaters" and start sucking up to them and give them whatever they want, they'll stop creating jobs and society collapses. And I believe that despite the twist you've presented here, that that is the basic premise of "Atlas Shrugged". And that is what has Republicans shitting their pants. Christ it's all nearly they talk about anymore.

What is the answer? I dunno. But, I do know that if we decide to take the track of pushing everything back to Guilded Age style freewheeling capitalism, we're gonna find out that that was no Xanadu either. Truth is, most of us today live way better than those folks did.

As imperfect as it is, I still believe in "one man, one vote". If Dave and Chuck and their buddies don't like it, they can go piss up a rope. Fuck them, their billion dollar SuperPacs and thier well paid for conservative SCOTUS justices. No, corporations are not people. I do NOT want my employer and his shareholders making political decisions for me, our goals are not, and most likely never will be exactly the same.

So, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
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  #45  
Old 04-20-2012, 09:32 AM
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merrylander merrylander is offline
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Originally Posted by BlueStreak View Post
Okay, however you want to try and explain your way around it.

What I keep hearing and seeing is that if we don't lighten the load on "the job creaters" and start sucking up to them and give them whatever they want, they'll stop creating jobs and society collapses. And I believe that despite the twist you've presented here, that that is the basic premise of "Atlas Shrugged". And that is what has Republicans shitting their pants. Christ it's all nearly they talk about anymore.

What is the answer? I dunno. But, I do know that if we decide to take the track of pushing everything back to Guilded Age style freewheeling capitalism, we're gonna find out that that was no Xanadu either. Truth is, most of us today live way better than those folks did.

As imperfect as it is, I still believe in "one man, one vote". If Dave and Chuck and their buddies don't like it, they can go piss up a rope. Fuck them, their billion dollar SuperPacs and thier well paid for conservative SCOTUS justices. No, corporations are not people. I do NOT want my employer and his shareholders making political decisions for me, our goals are not, and most likely never will be exactly the same.

So, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Pretty well sums it up.
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  #46  
Old 04-20-2012, 09:54 AM
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piece-itpete piece-itpete is offline
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It is one man one vote.

Pete
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  #47  
Old 04-20-2012, 10:04 AM
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BlueStreak BlueStreak is offline
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Yeah, right.

Maybe technically so. But, now they can use money raised from the fruit of my labor to fund campaigns on my behalf without my permission or consulting me at all. (And, even if they did ask me, we all know how those things go..."We're moving on this and everyone here is expected to be on board. Any questions? No? Good.") Pete, this is exacty the thing that the right has complained labor unions shouldn't be able to do for decades. Around here they've been running the anti-union ads complaining about this very thing. What? Unions should be barred from making political donations, but not employers? Yeah, I'm too dumb to see what that is all about.

And, don't give me that, "Well, you don't have to keep working there." stuff, either. You know it's not that simple. Would you just get up and walk away from your job if your boss told you he donated big money to the Obama campaign? Of course not, you need your job. And, so do I.

I could squeeze out maybe $50 to donate to a campaign. The company I work for is a multi-billion dollar multi-national. Who has the ability to make the greater impact?
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Last edited by BlueStreak; 04-20-2012 at 10:26 AM.
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  #48  
Old 04-20-2012, 10:12 AM
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piece-itpete piece-itpete is offline
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Money = vote? I thought only Dem machine town people got to vote more than once

Pete
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  #49  
Old 04-20-2012, 10:46 AM
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merrylander merrylander is offline
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It takes money to get the information out, even if it is a simple sheet of paper. I have some great ideas for a TV spot but I doubt that even selling the property would cover the bill.
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  #50  
Old 04-20-2012, 11:47 AM
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BlueStreak BlueStreak is offline
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Originally Posted by piece-itpete View Post
Money = vote? I thought only Dem machine town people got to vote more than once

Pete
Some claim it does when they see it going into democratic SuperPacs......

No, money doesn't always = votes, but it does buy influence (And Florida Supreme Court justices.) and it does pay for a whole lot of propaganda. Doesn't it?

If I had my way, political campaigns would last maybe two months, party primaries for a month. Nomination. Debate for a month. Election. All funded with public money, equally distributed, no outside donations or private funding allowed. Your vote is your voice, your money stays in your pocket, no matter who you are.

But, I'm nobody.
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