Death penalty

[Charles]

Originally Posted by Boreas

Some families think they benefit from that kind of closure but others don't. Some feel that killing a killer is as wrong as what the killer did. They recognize that nothing will bring their loved one back and putting another person's family through the same sort of pain they're feeling helps nobody.



I'm going to have to research this but I think I remember reading that because of hearing all the appeals and all the administrative BS that occurs, plus the long periods of time inmates spend on Death Row it's actually more expensive on average to execute someone than it is to lock them up for the rest of their lives.

Look at Mumia Abu-Jamal. He's been in custody since December of 1981. That's 28 years and counting. Mumia is more famous than any other Death Row inmate but he's not that atypical in other respects.

John

I can see where that type of closure may not suit some.

I'll tell a little story. Close to 20 yrs ago, one of the locals snapped like a glass rod.

Now I knew Jim, and he seem like a pretty nice guy to me. At that time, I would pull a cork with most of the major players (still do with the one's who are still alive), so I know of what I speak. They all knew him, and they all thought he was a pretty nice guy.

Anyway, it was a continuing domestic that finally went bad. And it's not like he was abusing his new wife and her daughter. They were running up credit card/phone bills on him and calling family services and the cops when he started raising hell. Takes two to tango.

To the best of my knowledge, he never laid a hand to either of them.

To make a long story short. His family called the Sheriffs Dept. on him and they dispatched a deputy. Probably not the most diplomatic deputy they had. At least that was the consensus of the one's who lived.

Bottom line is, Jim shot and killed the deputy on his front porch. After which, he drove to the Sheriff's house, and shot and killed the Sheriff's wife through a window while she was hosting a Christmas Party. Then he abandoned his car at my buddy's house (deceased deputy...and there WAS a Glenn Beck type asshole involved in this, causing trouble) as no one was at home.

He proceeded to one of his best friends home (another deputy), shot him four or five times through a window, ran to the jail, shot and killed a Sheriff from an ajoining county as he came out of the back door, then shot and killed a female deputy from a different ajoining county as she drove past.

I could go on...but you get the picture.

Now this is Bugtussell, and an "eye for an eye" is the rule of thumb. And most of the victims families turned up to see the execution. The best that I can tell, it was a morbid event, and everyone lefty feeling worse. But it did bring the "closure" that they needed.

As far as expense, the state is responsible for their general welfare, if that means a 250K quad conorany bipass (I saw this in the 80's, in 80's dollars), that's the law.

What's the answer? Got me, but I still assert that "some people just need to go".

No correct answer, really,

Chas

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by Charles

I can see where that type of closure may not suit some.

I'll tell a little story. Close to 20 yrs ago, one of the locals snapped like a glass rod.

Now I knew Jim, and he seem like a pretty nice guy to me. At that time, I would pull a cork with most of the major players (still do with the one's who are still alive), so I know of what I speak. They all knew him, and they all thought he was a pretty nice guy.

Anyway, it was a continuing domestic that finally went bad. And it's not like he was abusing his new wife and her daughter. They were running up credit card/phone bills on him and calling family services and the cops when he started raising hell. Takes two to tango.

To the best of my knowledge, he never laid a hand to either of them.

To make a long story short. His family called the Sheriffs Dept. on him and they dispatched a deputy. Probably not the most diplomatic deputy they had. At least that was the consensus of the one's who lived.

Bottom line is, Jim shot and killed the deputy on his front porch. After which, he drove to the Sheriff's house, and shot and killed the Sheriff's wife through a window while she was hosting a Christmas Party. Then he abandoned his car at my buddy's house (deceased deputy...and there WAS a Glenn Beck type asshole involved in this, causing trouble) as no one was at home.

He proceeded to one of his best friends home (another deputy), shot him four or five times through a window, ran to the jail, shot and killed a Sheriff from an ajoining county as he came out of the back door, then shot and killed a female deputy from a different ajoining county as she drove past.

I could go on...but you get the picture.

Now this is Bugtussell, and an "eye for an eye" is the rule of thumb. And most of the victims families turned up to see the execution. The best that I can tell, it was a morbid event, and everyone lefty feeling worse. But it did bring the "closure" that they needed.

As far as expense, the state is responsible for their general welfare, if that means a 250K quad conorany bipass (I saw this in the 80's, in 80's dollars), that's the law.

What's the answer? Got me, but I still assert that "some people just need to go".

No correct answer, really,

Chas

Chas, a terrible story and one that gets repeated more or less all too often. For me your last sentence says it all. There's no way to bring anybody back or to make the bereaved whole again but I don't see how taking an additional life and increasing the number of the bereaved helps anyone.

John

[Charles]

Originally Posted by Boreas

Chas, a terrible story and one that gets repeated more or less all too often. For me your last sentence says it all. There's no way to bring anybody back or to make the bereaved whole again but I don't see how taking an additional life and increasing the number of the bereaved helps anyone.

John

John, believe it or not, some people need it.

And it ain't like we're talkin' about killin' the local minister.

The older I get, the less I'm inclined to pass judgment. Or exact judgment.

Truth of to matter is, there is no right and wrong. Unless you're a homo sapien. We're the only ones who are so cock sure of ourselves to pass judgment.

My dog doesn't draw a moral lesson from what it does. Ever see a clip of a bunch of wolves eating the guts out of a deer while it's still alive?

And when it gets right down to it, nothing is more dangerous than a homo sapien. We're smarter, better armed, and we can shed our facade of "moral superiority" quicker than my little dog can shed it's winter coat.

Not right, or wrong...'tis the nature of the beast. And far be it for me to dictate to my fellow man as to the path he shall follow.

I'll stick with a GP100 and a Chief's Special in my nightstand for the time being. If that don't cut it, I'll bring in the H&K 91.

After that, I reckon they'll be eating my guts while I'm still alive.

Chas

Not right, or wrong. Simply the was things are, and always have been.

[BlueStreak]

Kill them all and let God sort them out.

Dave

[Grumpy]

Originally Posted by Boreas

Who said anything about finishing a sentence? I'm talking about life without the possibility of parole.



Do you think he was wrong to place the moratorium on executions, given how many mistakes they were making?

John

Ryan was in idiot politician looking after his own ass. I lived in Illinois under his reign.

They had 12 executions in 30 years so we aint exactly talking about lines out the door to the gas chamber.

Mistakes happen and they should NOT, but thats our system like it or not.

[Combwork]

Originally Posted by Charles

............It's sad really. The people who do these things really can't help themselves..........Chas

That's a popular conception, but I think it's fatally flawed. Child abusers go for self justification in a big way. They have to; how could they live with themselves if they didn't. In effect, telling child molesters "they can't help themselves" strengthens their self justification. 'They say I can't help it so it's ok if I do it. I'm only doing what I'm expected to do'.

Horrible as it might sound, if we treat child abuse as a symptom of something else then just maybe instead of reacting after the event, we could find a way to stop it happening in the first place.

[BlueStreak]

There we go with the "prevention" thing.

Don't you understand that here in "The States" it makes much more sense to let a criminal run amok, then kill him after he's committed his heinous crime as an act of revenge, rather than watch for abnormal behaviour and prevent the crime? Why, how
can we have sensational news stories without lots of bloodshed?

Geez, get with the program.

Dave

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

Why, how can we have sensational news stories without lots of bloodshed?

Geez, get with the program.

Dave

Or support a private for-profit "corrections" industry if we fool around with all that prevention nonsense?

John

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by Boreas
Do you think he was wrong to place the moratorium on executions, given how many mistakes they were making?

John

Originally Posted by Grumpy

Ryan was in idiot politician looking after his own ass. I lived in Illinois under his reign.

They had 12 executions in 30 years so we aint exactly talking about lines out the door to the gas chamber.

Mistakes happen and they should NOT, but thats our system like it or not.

But you didn't actually say whether you think Ryan was wrong. I'm interested in knowing whether you do.

Do you think it's interesting that no governor to succeed Ryan has lifted the ban? Quinn is on record as saying he has no plans to do it.

I'm uncomfortable with the "that's our system like it or not" argument. My feeling is that when you find out there's something wrong with the system you fix it.

John

[Grumpy]

I am sorry but the system is to too corrupt to be fixed.

Yes I feel ryan was wrong for stopping it.