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05-24-2009, 04:32 AM
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[QUOTE=SAE2922;1012]Combwork,
I see that you are talking about LPG (Liquified Petroleum Gas - "Propane") in the U.K. The building of a nationwide array of hydrogen fuel stations in the United States would have to be straight from the beginning. Converting a gasoline fuel station to handle hydrogen would entail a complete top-to-bottom rebuild of the fuel handling equipment. Not cheap by any means.
What some of the fuel stations have done here is add a single LPG pump to the existing petrol and diesel pumps. LPG is still pressurized, but nothing like as much as liquid hydrogen.
With our present refining infrastructure, going with a clean-burning diesel technology may be the way to go instead of gas-hybrid technology. Turbo-charging small displacement diesel engines can easily approach the 40-50 mpg range (or better) TODAY.
We're ahead of you on that one; a good example is the Fiat Multipla. 6 seat, aircon, all the bells and whistles. Urban cycle 50 mpg, long distance 55 mpg from a 1.9 litre turbocharged diesel. Even a 15 year old 2.5 litre Citroen turbo Diesel Estate gets around 40 mpg. The Citroen BX (1.7 turbo diesel) is quite happy to run on straight vegetable oil; really does bring driving costs down.
Oh well, maybe I'll get my license back but I'll not hold my breath........
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05-24-2009, 07:58 AM
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The US is well behind the UK in the diesel department but you have to remember your comparing a US gal to the rest of the world.
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05-24-2009, 08:02 AM
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Resident octogenarian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAE2922
Combwork,
<snip>
Besides, hydrogen typically consumes more energy to produce than the energy that is derived from it. When we ramp up the massive production machinery to create hydrogen to fuel several million "riding lawn mowers with windshields", where will we get the energy to generate the much needed extra electricity? I sure don't know.
The government won't let domestic energy companies dig, drill or prospect where the energy can be found. God forbid that a snail darter, yellow-cheeked warbler, spotted owl or a gimp-legged slumbago worm is disturbed. "Frack no, don't drill there, 44 sea otters went to crustacean heaven in the oil spill of '69"! Just where will we get the energy?
There is absolutely no way that the American oil companies are going to freely and easily put up the billions of U.S.A. dollars to fund the massive infrastructure restructuring that would be required to service an American nationwide fleet of hydrogen-powered "golf carts with roll-up windows and air conditioning".
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Perhaps if the domestic oil companies were to drill in all the leases they presently hold they could avoid the National Parks? The numbers for these unused leases are rather large.
As to the golf cart comparison I guess you have never seen a hydrogen powered vehicle. BTW we do have a golf cart, great way to get around the property, especially considering the 50 foot difference in levels.
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05-24-2009, 08:33 AM
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Quote Merrylander:
"Besides, hydrogen typically consumes more energy to produce than the energy that is derived from it. When we ramp up the massive production machinery to create hydrogen to fuel several million "riding lawn mowers with windshields", where will we get the energy to generate the much needed extra electricity? I sure don't know"
As I understand it, power stations either have to run 24/7 or not at all. Could the 'surplus' electricity generated at night be used for large scale electrolysis; hydrogen from water? That assumes you want hydrogen; could a gas powered car be adapted to run on hydrogen? The great advantage of LPG is that most petrol engines can be adapted fairly easily and it's a switchable adaptation; you carry petrol and LPG, using whatever suits. This gets round the problem of LPG not always being available.
Quote Grumpy:
The US is well behind the UK in the diesel department but you have to remember your comparing a US gal to the rest of the world.
That's true; I'd forgotten that. I think it's a 7 to 8 ratio. Using the British pint, US gallon contains 7 pints; UK contains 8. Going back to the point made by SA2922, if you're talking about 50+mpg off a US gallon in a standard size car, you're way ahead of us.
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05-24-2009, 09:14 AM
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For some unknown reason the US uses the Queen Charlotte system of liquid measure.
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05-24-2009, 10:14 AM
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Another thing to consider is what MPH is the rest of the world using to test MPG. Up until a year or so ago we tested at 55 with no AC on and very slow starts. Hence the lower MP ratings of newer vehicles compared to those of old.
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05-24-2009, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy
Another thing to consider is what MPH is the rest of the world using to test MPG. Up until a year or so ago we tested at 55 with no AC on and very slow starts. Hence the lower MP ratings of newer vehicles compared to those of old.
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This site gives comparison figures between manufacturers tests and 'real life' driving. http://www.green-car-guide.com/news/...l-life-mpg.htm It's a UK site so the difference between US and UK gallon has to be allowed for. While I was checking I found the US gallon is 1/5th smaller than the UK gallon, not 1/8th.
For some unknown reason the US uses the Queen Charlotte system of liquid measure. (Merrylander) OK, let me get my head round this one. The U.S.A. who fought a long and bloody battle to kick England's king back over the water adopted a measuring system named after the wife of George 3rd. Meanwhile, I was going to be smart and give the origin of the Imperial Gallon but gave up when I found this 20 minims = 1 fluid scruple. WTF? That's straight out of Harry Potter.
Last edited by Combwork; 05-24-2009 at 11:20 AM.
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05-24-2009, 02:31 PM
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Beats me. BTW I was not the one comparing hydrogen powered vehicles to golf carts.
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05-24-2009, 02:38 PM
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Senior Member
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merrylander
Beats me. BTW I was not the one comparing hydrogen powered vehicles to golf carts.
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Sorry; hand to brain coordination isn't always my thing.
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05-25-2009, 07:39 AM
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Resident octogenarian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Combwork
Sorry; hand to brain coordination isn't always my thing.
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You too?
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