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  #21  
Old 06-29-2018, 03:36 PM
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whell whell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobabode View Post
Here is one example of what Trump has said. Seems to put the lie to what you are asserting but then it's no surprise considering your track record here, Mike.

ps This is a textbook example of a 'strawman' argument, btw.

Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump


The FAKE NEWS media (failing @nytimes, @NBCNews, @ABC, @CBS, @CNN) is not my enemy, it is the enemy of the American People!
2:48 PM - Feb 17, 2017
It "put the lie to nothing". And yes, you create a straw man argument when you do what you just did: pull the quote above and use it out of context. Your suggesting that quote is the Prez's universal view of all media, every day 24/7. That quote is best viewed in context of what was happening on 2/17/2018, when he was calling reports on those networks of of his aides' contact with Russia "fake news."

You may also be suggesting, as others have, that quote from 4.5 months ago should be color anything that may have occurred with yesterday's shooting. If that's the case, at least the Reuter's editor apologized.
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  #22  
Old 06-29-2018, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whell View Post
It "put the lie to nothing". And yes, you create a straw man argument when you do what you just did: pull the quote above and use it out of context. Your suggesting that quote is the Prez's universal view of all media, every day 24/7. That quote is best viewed in context of what was happening on 2/17/2018, when he was calling reports on those networks of of his aides' contact with Russia "fake news."

You may also be suggesting, as others have, that quote from 4.5 months ago should be color anything that may have occurred with yesterday's shooting. If that's the case, at least the Reuter's editor apologized.
Once again you've moved the goalposts. Your childish rants and deflections are tedious and boring, Mike. I've had better conversations with a five year old. At least they've laughed when they tried the 'I'm rubber, you're glue' rhetorical device.
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  #23  
Old 06-30-2018, 06:17 AM
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whell whell is offline
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Originally Posted by bobabode View Post
Once again you've moved the goalposts. Your childish rants and deflections are tedious and boring, Mike. I've had better conversations with a five year old. At least they've laughed when they tried the 'I'm rubber, you're glue' rhetorical device.
I point out exactly where you're breaking your own "rules" and you call it a childish rant. Wow, that's really cool.
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  #24  
Old 06-30-2018, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whell View Post
So, Trump said "fake news" was the enemy of the people. I think its pretty crass of you to:

- make this shooting political when its not, and;
- conflate the victims of the Capital Gazette shooting as purveyors of fake news at a time like this.

Pretty sad.
I did neither, nor did I make an assertion of causation. All I said was that Trump (and you as a Trump cultist/sycophant/apologist) should be pleased by the death of such frequently-vilified "enemies of the people," just as Americans were pleased by the death of Osama bin Laden. Trump has vilified the free press as much or more than he has vilified any other real enemy of the American people from OBL to the Taliban to ISIS to Hezbollah (to Russia, obviously). No matter how hard you try to excuse Trump's behavior, it is simply true that he has vilified the free press like no other enemy. Own it.
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Last edited by finnbow; 06-30-2018 at 07:37 AM.
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  #25  
Old 06-30-2018, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finnbow View Post
I did neither, nor did I make an assertion of causation. All I said was that Trump (and you as a Trump cultist/sycophant/apologist) should be pleased by the death of such frequently-vilified "enemies of the people," just as Americans were pleased by the death of Osama bin Laden. Trump has vilified the free press as much or more than he has vilified any other real enemy of the American people from OBL to the Taliban to ISIS to Hezbollah (to Russia, obviously). No matter how hard you try to excuse Trump's behavior, it is simply true that he has vilified the free press like no other enemy. Own it.
You did not make an assertion of causation because you know that you and your ilk are the cause. You are hiding like a rich giggling coward. I have been in the shooter's shoes since you all have purported to like me. The difference between me and the shooter is that I fight with words.

The outrage industry is real. You know it and I have learned it. What I do not understand is what good you want to come of your industrialized persuasion. What do you want? What is your goal?
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  #26  
Old 06-30-2018, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by ebacon View Post
You did not make an assertion of causation because you know that you and your ilk are the cause. You are hiding like a rich giggling coward. I have been in the shooter's shoes since you all have purported to like me. The difference between me and the shooter is that I fight with words.

The outrage industry is real. You know it and I have learned it. What I do not understand is what good you want to come of your industrialized persuasion. What do you want? What is your goal?
To demonstrate to you and Whell and any other Trump cultists the vile, malignant nature of Trump. Whell is completely blind to it. Are you?
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  #27  
Old 06-30-2018, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by finnbow View Post
To demonstrate to you and Whell and any other Trump cultists the vile, malignant nature of Trump. Whell is completely blind to it. Are you?
Hmm. It's the demonstration -- the acting out of philosophical differences -- that I struggle with. Demonstration is noisy. I am more of a laborious and hands on kind of guy. My goal is maintaining beautiful things. When it comes to guns I want to maintain the comradery of their manufacture and maintenance so that their users can hit their targets. Similarly when it comes to persuasion I want to maintain a first amendment goal of truth as a target. In the bullseye of that contrast is a notion that profiting by persuading people to shoot each other is OK. That thinking harkens back to the 20th century when abundance theory and Rhode Scholarships came on the scene.

The fallacy was that money is an acceptable substitute for truth. Money is not a substitute for truth. It never has been. The word "capitalism" started out as a derogatory term. So did nerd, and geek, and quant. Those are all mathematical terms and end up at the average. Who wants to maintain the average? No one. What we want to maintain is something that looks and feels like small town living with occasional day trips between them to experience delicate contrasts with our neighbors. But no. The math has split our society into worrying about shades and shooting each other because we are tired of being measured and persuaded to turn this way or that.
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  #28  
Old 06-30-2018, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by ebacon View Post
Hmm. It's the demonstration -- the acting out of philosophical differences -- that I struggle with. Demonstration is noisy. I am more of a laborious and hands on kind of guy. My goal is maintaining beautiful things. When it comes to guns I want to maintain the comradery of their manufacture and maintenance so that their users can hit their targets. Similarly when it comes to persuasion I want to maintain a first amendment goal of truth as a target. In the bullseye of that contrast is a notion that profiting by persuading people to shoot each other is OK. That thinking harkens back to the 20th century when abundance theory and Rhode Scholarships came on the scene.

The fallacy was that money is an acceptable substitute for truth. Money is not a substitute for truth. It never has been. The word "capitalism" started out as a derogatory term. So did nerd, and geek, and quant. Those are all mathematical terms and end up at the average. Who wants to maintain the average? No one. What we want to maintain is something that looks and feels like small town living with occasional day trips between them to experience delicate contrasts with our neighbors. But no. The math has split our society into worrying about shades and shooting each other because we are tired of being measured and persuaded to turn this way or that.
That's a very long, evasive and confusing answer to my question as to whether you're blind to Trump's malignancy. Are you? See if you have it in you to answer in one clear, concise sentence.
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  #29  
Old 06-30-2018, 05:28 PM
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ebacon ebacon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finnbow View Post
To demonstrate to you and Whell and any other Trump cultists the vile, malignant nature of Trump. Whell is completely blind to it. Are you?
Hmm. It's the demonstration -- the acting out of philosophical differences -- that I struggle with. Demonstration is noisy. I am more of a laborious and hands on kind of guy. My goal is maintain to beautiful things. When it comes to guns I want to maintain the comradery of their manufacture and maintenance so that their users can hit their targets. Similarly when it comes to persuasion I want to maintain a first amendment goal of truth as a target. In the bullseye of that contrast is a notion that profiting by persuading people to shoot each other is OK. That thinking harkens back to the 20th century when abundance theory and Rhode Scholarships came on the scene. The fallacy was that money is an acceptable substitute for truth. Money is not a substitute for truth. It never has been. The word "capitalism" started out as a derogatory term. So did nerd, and geek, and quant. Those are all mathematical terms and end up at the average. Who wants to maintain the average? No one. What we want to maintain is something that looks and feels like small town living with occasional day trips between them to experience delicate contrasts with our neighbors. But no. The math has split our society into worrying about shades and shooting each other because we are tired of being measured and persuaded to turn this way or that.
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  #30  
Old 06-30-2018, 07:38 PM
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EB, you may be overthinking things a bit.

There are very few REAL arguments. Individual vs. community, which in more abstract words is selfishness vs altruism. 'Let's try this new thing' vs. 'let's honor the old ways.' A few others. These arguments will never be settled, and indeed, should not be. The answer to all the propositions is 'sometimes.'

Many people are easily persuaded to fear. Uses have been found for that. These represent the 'less real' arguments I implied existed, above.
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