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  #61  
Old 05-24-2016, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Boreas View Post
Watch the video.
I did. The Mayor and I agree.
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  #62  
Old 05-24-2016, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Boreas View Post
Then explain why Freddie Gray was crying out in pain and couldn't use his legs after Nero "jacked him up".
I does appear Gray has some ability to bear weight on his legs when entering the van. In this still from a video accessed on CNN, he is standing on the rear of the van, and I don't see that he has enough support to hold him up if his legs aren't doing it.



I still say Neal can bear culpability for an unlawful arrest. I find the judge's repeated question to be completely on-side with the defense here, so much so that I wonder if a mistrial is possible. I think there would certainly be grounds for that if he'd kept asking 'Is an arrest without probable cause always a crime?' in front of a jury.

The judge might as well have said, as an observer did, "“If you’re going to go back and charge every police officer whose arrest was determined to be illegal with assault, or every search that’s deemed to be absent probable cause, you’re going to indict the entire police force.”

I'm sure thoughts just like this were in the judge's mind, and he found them crazy. Keep in mind who this guy is. He's Chief of the Baltimore Criminal Court. That is to say, he's embedded up to his neck in the system by which criminal defendants are just about all sent to jail, mainly on the say-so of the police.
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Last edited by bobabode; 05-24-2016 at 08:12 PM. Reason: pic too big
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  #63  
Old 05-24-2016, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Boreas View Post
No, it doesn't. Your post was in response to this one of mine and offered in answer to the question I posed. It isn't. It isn't even close.

http://politicalchat.org/showpost.ph...9&postcount=40
Your edit to your original post appears to have crossed with my response. In any case, the Prosecution didn't pursue Nero for what happened in the van because they couldn't prove - due to lack of evidence - that Nero was responsible for the injuries that caused Gray's demise. So, they went with what they believed was their strongest argument against Nero. That argument turned out to be crap.
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  #64  
Old 05-24-2016, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by donquixote99 View Post

I still say Neal can bear culpability for an unlawful arrest. I find the judge's repeated question to be completely on-side with the defense here, so much so that I wonder if a mistrial is possible. I think there would certainly be grounds for that if he'd kept asking 'Is an arrest without probable cause always a crime?' in front of a jury.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/98-1036.ZO.html

Respondent and amici also argue that there are innocent reasons for flight from police and that, therefore, flight is not necessarily indicative of ongoing criminal activity. This fact is undoubtedly true, but does not establish a violation of the Fourth Amendment. Even in Terry, the conduct justifying the stop was ambiguous and susceptible of an innocent explanation. The officer observed two individuals pacing back and forth in front of a store, peering into the window and periodically conferring. Terry, 392 U.S., at 5—6. All of this conduct was by itself lawful, but it also suggested that the individuals were casing the store for a planned robbery. Terry recognized that the officers could detain the individuals to resolve the ambiguity.
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  #65  
Old 05-24-2016, 05:05 PM
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'Stop' is not the same thing as 'arrest.' Still need probable cause to suspect of a specific crime to arrest.
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  #66  
Old 05-24-2016, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by donquixote99 View Post
'Stop' is not the same thing as 'arrest.' Still need probable cause to suspect of a specific crime to arrest.
No kidding. The arrest was due to possession of what was thought at the time to be an illegal knife. So what's your point?
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  #67  
Old 05-24-2016, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by donquixote99 View Post
'Stop' is not the same thing as 'arrest.' Still need probable cause to suspect of a specific crime to arrest.
Based on the info in the transcript of the Judge,s decision, it doesn't even look like the Prosecution could prove that Nero was involved in the arrest:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/mar...523-story.html

“It was Miller who detained Mr. Gray, it was Miller who cuffed Mr. Gray, and it was Miller who walked Mr. Gray over to the area where the defendant met them. When the detention morphed into an arrest, [Officer Nero] was not present.” In fact, witness testimony and CCTV cameras showed Officer Nero was down the block retrieving another officer’s bike during this time."

Last edited by whell; 05-24-2016 at 07:16 PM.
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  #68  
Old 05-24-2016, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by whell View Post
No kidding. The arrest was due to possession of what was thought at the time to be an illegal knife. So what's your point?
Things were done out of order. First the arrest, then the search that found the knife.
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  #69  
Old 05-24-2016, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by donquixote99 View Post
Things were done out of order. First the arrest, then the search that found the knife.
I don't think that's correct. He was apprehended, searched, then placed under arrest. That's also reflected in the transcript of the judges decision.
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  #70  
Old 05-25-2016, 04:39 AM
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Originally Posted by finnbow View Post
The long and the short of it - I trust the judge more than I trust idle Internet speculation. Unless and until I sit through the entire trial in person, I see no point in second-guessing what happened.
This has long been my take on such matters.

That said, I do think the bigger picture, without regard to this case, does align police, prosecutor and judge in a less than neutral partnership.
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