Shootings at theater.

[JJIII]

Originally Posted by noonereal

The debate needs to open and honest. You like guns, I don't. Let's negotiate.

Nooner, you and I have butted heads over the gun issue for a long time. I respect your feelings on the subject but I don't think we will ever agree on this issue.

I do appreciate your being able to post about it without invective and name calling.

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by hillbilly

Have you read this yet?

*WASHINGTON (AP) — Gun control advocates sputter at their own impotence. The National Rifle Association is politically ascendant. And Barack Obama's White House pledges to safeguard the Second Amendment in its first official response to the deaths of at least 12 people in a mass shooting at a new Batman movie screening in suburban Denver.*

Heres the rest of the above.

http://news.yahoo.com/calls-gun-cont...132319718.html

I read this to say, "President Obama lied about his views on guns today because he is running for President and he does not want to lose any potential votes by saying his true opinion."

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by noonereal

I read this to say, "President Obama lied about his views on guns today because he is running for President and he does not want to lose any potential votes by saying his true opinion."

Virtually all Democrats have been singing this same tune since the mid '90's.

[beej]

Originally Posted by finnbow

Virtually all Democrats have been singing this same tune since the mid '90's.

So just to sum it all up, the country is essentially powerless to take certain steps that may very well deal with two very real and present threats to our security as a nation:

1) gun violence because of Wayne LaPierre and the NRA

2) the national debt because of Grover Norquist and Americans for Tax Reform


LaPierre will crush any candidate who openly advocates even a discussion of firearms control.

Norquist holds the HOR (and thus the country) hostage with that masterpiece called the no-tax-increase pledge.

Isn't it just delightful that two extremists who hold neither elective nor appointive office in our government exercise this level of control over our nation?

[MacKat]

I don't think banning guns is the solution, nor is allowing every single person to buy one. If someone wants to buy a gun, they must complete an in-depth training course at their own expense. And they have to pass it. That would at least help weed out the wackos. (and yes, I am an ultra left-wing liberal in most every other regard)


Ben aka MacKat

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by noonereal

Bringing up a militia to say it's your right in the constitution to carry guns is self serving fiction.

It also undermines the entire argument that the population should be replete with weaponry.

If the 2A rationale is tied to a "well regulated militia," you're going to have to specifically define who that is.

It's NOT everybody.

But here's the issue, free and clear: just like politics, there are radicals in every group from far leftist abolishers (scared of inanimate objects) to far right leaning a-machine-gun-in-every-pot (gun Nazi) types.

Most of us are within the parameters of a Bell Curve but all the $$$ is with the NRA. (Heck, I considered applying for a job at Wilson Combat because their 1911's are works of art but they MANDATE NRA membership: fuck that.) Now, we can query why all the funds are tilted loony bin right but -- I assure you -- it's NOT because these folks are "patriotic."

In large part, it's because they are terrified Big_Bill types who perceive a firearm as a manifestation of the their own personal power and independence which they have intellectually tied to an internal brand of freedom.

That just means they know nothing about freedom.

Empowered by the state, feds, municipality, Constitution, county or parrish, having a gun on your hip (in my case a Glock 21) for any reason is/was the most freedom robbing 2.5 pounds you'll ever conceive of.

Do you know what I would have done in that theater, if I'd even realized what was occurring before it was over?

1. Get down.
2. Stay low.
3. Head AWAY from gunfire.

It wouldn't have mattered were I carrying a sub-machine gun.

And THAT is the difference in rationality (having some) between everyone 2/3 to the right and going all the way left on the Bell Curve we mentioned versus the remainder to the right who have none. Operative query? Why are the 1/3 to the right being allowed to run the show?

Time to make that cease.

But the problem isn't really about politicians, money, lobby or influence. The issue is a very specific subset of John Q. Public. More pointedly, a lot of guys I like. More specifically, some guys whom I have seen write on this board or are my neighbors. The entire problem with guns in this country and our inability to do anything about their use in crimes lies with the guy who believes that -- because some of us think there's no citizenry need for an Uzi -- the government is soon coming for his .30-06.

In sum, its people motivated by fear, people who buy an agenda based in it, and the same people that brought you an invasion of Iraq because they can't see through propaganda. Basically, it's those people who are uninformed and do not think.

Or, as I like to call them, radical (at least half) Republicans.

[finnbow]

At least Tom Coburn (R-OK) is speaking out a bit against Norquist, perhaps only because he plans to retire from the Senate in 2016.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/16/op...an-pledge.html

[bobabode]

Originally Posted by hillbilly

Have you read this yet?

*WASHINGTON (AP) — Gun control advocates sputter at their own impotence. The National Rifle Association is politically ascendant. And Barack Obama's White House pledges to safeguard the Second Amendment in its first official response to the deaths of at least 12 people in a mass shooting at a new Batman movie screening in suburban Denver.*

Heres the rest of the above.

http://news.yahoo.com/calls-gun-cont...132319718.html

Your point being?

[hillbilly]

Originally Posted by bobabode

Your point being?

My point is gun owners aren't going to get punished because of the act of one fool.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by hillbilly

My point is gun owners aren't going to get punished because of the act of one fool.

Merely innocent citizens because of unfettered access.

I bet something occurs as early as February.