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[whell]

Originally Posted by finnbow

I find it amusing how you MAGAMorons find the Twitter Files to represent attacks against the First Amendment despite not showing a single instance of government coercion...

It's not that I didn't show it. You just continue to ignore it.

[whell]

Originally Posted by Rajoo

whell, so why is it OK for untrained mothers to decide what books to ban but not OK for well-trained FBI agents to communicate with social media companies to flag potential threats?

Are you trying to conflate parents voicing displeasure about sexual content in books in school libraries with foreign actors posting content on Twitter? How does that work, exactly?

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

It's not that I didn't show it. You just continue to ignore it.

You did not show a single instance of government coercion. Your argument, like that of the two MAGA AG's and the judge involved in the case, are not being made in good faith (as is nearly always true of all things MAGA).

Ron DeSantis routinely takes actions that are contrary to the First Amendment, but you MAGAMorons are silent (or praise him for it) whereas neither Twitter nor DOJ took actions contrary to the First Amendment, yet you condemn them for it. Whassup with that?

https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily...irst-amendment

https://www.axios.com/2023/01/21/ron...-warren-ruling

https://theintercept.com/2023/04/26/...t-free-speech/

https://firstamendmentwatch.org/an-a...antis-florida/

And now in Mississippi, a law has passed effectively prohibiting those younger than 18 from checking out any ebooks from the library. You good with that, Mr. First Amendment? What all of these examples show is that "conservatives" applaud when their cynical leaders take government actions overtly hostile to the First Amendment, yet scream like banshees when private actors exercise their own First Amendment rights in a way that may impact the ability of conservatives to use these private platforms to spread lies and misinformation that explicitly violate their terms of service while harming American democracy and public health.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by whell

It's not that I didn't show it. You just continue to ignore it.

It sure is fun and easy to say you showed it!

[Rajoo]

Originally Posted by whell

Are you trying to conflate parents voicing displeasure about sexual content in books in school libraries with foreign actors posting content on Twitter? How does that work, exactly?

Ill educated parents belonging to an extreme wing of one party decides what books to ban for all of the children's education in this country? How does that work in a democracy? Would these parents even pass a basic literacy test?

If foreign actors are posting on Twitter along with violent American extremists who are being tracked by the FBI doing their jobs, should not notify relevant social media companies?

And why are foreign actors posting on Twitter?
Do they have 1A rights too?

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by whell

It just occurred to me: you're fully lacking in self-awareness and no longer have any idea how absurd you really sound. Maybe this will help provide some perspective on why parents think that certain books don't belong in a school library, though I doubt it.

How explicit were these books—and others at the center of the nationwide "book banning" controversy? Put yourself on the review committee and you be the judge. Here are three of the books Forsyth reviewed, with relevant excerpts.

First up is L8r, G8r by Lauren Myracle (a book that has been challenged in at least 19 districts across the country).

SnowAngel: so: spit or swallow? [/] zoegirl: i swallowed, but i don't think i'm going to next time. i'll just tell him very politely so he's not offended. [/] SnowAngel: erm, i bet he'll be okay with it. what's he gonna say, "nuh uh, no way! in that case, no blow jobs for YOU, missy!" [/] zoegirl: I don't *want* a blow job [/] SnowAngel: you know what i mean [/] zoegirl: doug tried to go down on me (geez, that sounds dorky), but I was like '"no no no no no. that's ok." [/] SnowAngel: why? [/] zoegirl: like you said, the whole odor thing. but in reverse. ack, i'm blushing just talking about it!

Do I think a book with this type of content belongs in a library at a grade school, middle school or high school? No. Is this a "fascist" point of view? Well, if you grossly expand and twist the definition of fascim as I suppose you're doing, then maybe.

Book is appropriate for teens. Teens see stuff and need to know stuff. This book presents it in the context of teens talking to teens , very accessible and real to the readers. Here's one kid's review of the book:

age 12+ [four stars]
Everyday We Lit
To me this book was actually really true. Like, I thought it was gonna be stupid with the little smiley faces on it but, it really discussed common problems in High school. Some families may think it's bad for their child to read this but, I think it's good because then if someone asks them for a blowjob they don't just say yes and get stuck in an icky situation. The characters in this book (madmaddie, zoegirl, snowangel) were always there for each other when they needed to conquer Jana (the evil dragon). I feel they are true friends.

This title has:
Educational value
Great role models

https://www.commonsensemedia.org/boo...t-girls-book-3

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by finnbow

I'm hardly scared of them. OTOH, I'm not fond of ignorant MAGAMorons and fascists making decisions about which books kids should read. For example, the MAGA clown who is Oklahoma's State School Superintendent Ryan Walters says that any instruction on the infamous Tulsa race massacre should not portray the massacre as having its roots in racism. We also have Florida teachers being investigated or fired for showing Disney movies or a Georgia teachers being fired for reading a children's book written from the perspective of a child who likes both traditionally “boy” things like trains and “girl” things like glitter.

As for the Moms for Liberty and their Hitler quote (a group the SPLC compares to pro-segregationist groups that arose after Brown v Board of Education), a speaker (GOP Lt. Gov. of NC) at their annual convention defended the Hitler citation and then praised the policies of Stalin and Mao as well.

I find it amusing how you MAGAMorons find the Twitter Files to represent attacks against the First Amendment despite not showing a single instance of government coercion, yet are OK with morons and fascists using the power of state government to ban books and fire teachers, the House of Representative punishing a member for criticizing your Dear Leader and Truth Social immediately deleting any posts critical of your Dear Leader.

It can only be explained as I did above, namely that your position has nothing to do with free speech. It's about ensuring that nothing interferes with the lies and misinformation critical to MAGA conservatism while drowning out the voices who challenge this fascist viewpoint and the racist, homophobic sentiment underpinning it.

BTW, this is the second time recently I've heard Hitler, Stalin, and Mao come out in the same breath from right-wing speakers. Sounds like these guys are really top-of-mind in right wing circles now. May even be deliberately spreading a 'normalize the dictators' meme. None dare call it grooming....

[whell]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Book is appropriate for teens. Teens see stuff and need to know stuff. This book presents it in the context of teens talking to teens , very accessible and real to the readers. Here's one kid's review of the book:
https://www.commonsensemedia.org/boo...t-girls-book-3

It may be appropriate for teens in some folk's opinion. I don't think it belongs in a school library.

[whell]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

BTW, this is the second time recently I've heard Hitler, Stalin, and Mao come out in the same breath from right-wing speakers. Sounds like these guys are really top-of-mind in right wing circles now. May even be deliberately spreading a 'normalize the dictators' meme. None dare call it grooming....

Or you're spinning someone's poor choice of quote for your own purposes. This one's for you and Finn:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...e/70350305007/

Groups such as Moms for Liberty should know their every move will be scrutinized by the left in this incredibly polarized environment. It was a few weeks ago that the Southern Poverty Law Center called Moms for Liberty an “extremist” group.

The power of language:Book ban debate plays into deepening divides. Are we either 'fascists' or 'groomers'?

So Moms for Liberty ought to be well aware that they must be careful in what they say and do.

It’s worth noting this Indiana chapter is just one of nearly 300 around the country, and certainly isn’t representative of the whole organization. In this case, the chapter was trying to paint its opponents – and the leftist indoctrination the group fears – as fascists. In doing so, the label was turned on them.

Maybe the lesson here is that we should stop calling each other fascists so flippantly.

Now, if some of you would actually debate rather than label...nah, it'll never happen.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

It may be appropriate for teens in some folk's opinion. I don't think it belongs in a school library.

And what this forum has clearly shown over the past several years is that what you think is more often than not dead wrong.

Consider for a moment that the party of Donald Trump, a guy who calls a free press "the enemy of the people," news outlets than fact check his non-stop lies "fake news" and who has sued a number of them for publishing true (if unflattering) accounts of his lies and misdeeds, is now coming to the defense of the First Amendment while they ban books and applaud their favorite Governor (running in 2nd place for the GOP nomination) who has routinely taken actions which are against the First Amendment.

And you wonder why anyone should take seriously what MAGAMorons (a decidedly ignorant, education-averse and fascist-leaning bunch) thinks is suitable for a school library?