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  #1631  
Old 05-31-2018, 09:31 AM
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Dondilion Dondilion is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nailer View Post
Mueller and his team are conducting a politically motivated criminal investigation. It’s a criminal investigation because that’s the FBI’s job. It’s politically motivated because the establishment is out to get the anti-establishment populist who managed to get himself elected president. Most American politicians represent the establishment, especially on the national level, and as such they are an important part of our nation’s establishment. Both sides of Senate’s aisle are pretty much establishment. In the House there are some somewhat anti-establishment members, a bit more so on the Republican side. Trump represents a threat to the establishment’s status quo which is why they are out to get him.

How did we end up with this anti-establishment populist in our highest office? Donald Trump has hated the elitist NY establishment for a long time; he’s anti-establishment to his core. Clothing himself in populist garb, aided greatly by what he learned in becoming a reality TV star, he stole the Republican nomination, much to the party’s chagrin. The GOP has only itself to blame. Prior to 1968 both parties had their fair share of racists, but with the passage of the Civil Rights Act and the GOP welcoming the rejected Southerners with open arms, the GOP found itself a winning combination. With the advent of political correctness, the politically incorrect who weren’t already voting Republican due to their racism became more ballot fodder for GOP candidates. It was Trump’s ability to sway this key Republican constituency that earned him the candidacy.

So we now have an anti-establishment populist President who threatens the establishment’s status quo. Any wonder they’re out to get him. Trump is correct that Mueller is conducting a witch hunt because from the establishment’s perspective he is a witch. Burn him!
Always a bedrock of objectivity.
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  #1632  
Old 06-03-2018, 10:48 AM
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Rajoo Rajoo is offline
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As Artie Johnson used to say, "very very interesting".

The Trump legal team sent a confidential letter to Mueller in January laying out reasons as to why Trump does not need to testify regarding obstruction of justice. Reason? He is in charge of the Justice Department and thus by definition, he could not be charged with obstruction. The other point being made is that there was no collusion, take our word for it. Let's see if these arguments work and hope not. Good news is that the NYT got a copy of this very confidential letter and promptly published it or the Trump team leaked it since the Dotard has feebly complained about it.
Quote:

It is our understanding that the reason behind the request for the interview is to allow the Special Counsel’s office to complete its report. After reviewing the list of topics you presented, it is abundantly clear to the undersigned that all of the answers to your inquiries are contained in the exhibits and testimony that have already been voluntarily provided to you by the White House and witnesses, all of which clearly show that there was no collusion with Russia, and that no FBI investigation was or even could have been obstructed.

It remains our position that the President’s actions here, by virtue of his position as the chief law enforcement officer, could neither constitutionally nor legally constitute obstruction because that would amount to him obstructing himself, and that he could, if he wished, terminate the inquiry, or even exercise his power to pardon if he so desired.1Nevertheless, the President’s strong desire for transparency indicated the need to obtain an honest and complete factual report from the Special Counsel, which would sustain and even benefit the Office of the President and the national interest throughout his time in office. Thus, full cooperation was in order, and was in fact provided by all relevant parties.
And now this morning Gui is claiming that Trump has the power to pardon himself. Looks like they are covering all angles smoke screens. The letter:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...documents.html
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  #1633  
Old 06-03-2018, 02:07 PM
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Dondilion Dondilion is offline
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[QUOTE=Rajoo;371865]


And now this morning Gui is claiming that Trump has the power to pardon himself. Looks like they are covering all angles smoke screens. The letter:

[URL="https[/QUOTE]

And has he the power?

Last edited by Dondilion; 06-03-2018 at 02:21 PM.
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  #1634  
Old 06-03-2018, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Dondilion View Post
And has he the power?
On paper he does I think, but never been tested.
Interestingly though for the whell's of this world, why is Trump even talking about a pardon or impeachment if he is not guilty of any wrongdoing?
Didn't the Dotard say that innocent people do not need lawyers.
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  #1635  
Old 06-03-2018, 04:38 PM
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President Trump Thinks He Is a King

The president believes he is above the law. That’s the takeaway from the confidential 20-page memo sent by President Trump’s lawyers to the special counsel, Robert Mueller, published over the weekend by The Times. And it’s the same sentiment that Rudy Giuliani expressed on Sunday when he suggested that Mr. Trump has the power to pardon himself.

The central claim of the legal memorandum is that it is impossible for the president to illegally obstruct any aspect of the investigation into Russia’s election meddling. That’s because, as president, Mr. Trump has the constitutional power to terminate the inquiry or pardon his way out of it. Therefore — and this is the key and indefensible point — he cannot obstruct justice by exercising this authority “no matter his motivation.”

This understanding of presidential power is radical and absolutist. It is also unsound and almost certain to be sharply rejected should it ever be proffered in court.

Even granting the contention that Mr. Trump could simply terminate the investigation, it is a non sequitur to argue, as the president’s lawyers do, that as a consequence he cannot obstruct it. Imagine, for example, that the worst version of facts proves true: that Trump fired the F.B.I. director, James Comey, tried to fire Mr. Mueller, constructed a false account of the June 2016 Russia meeting, and tried to force Attorney General Jeff Sessions to reverse his recusal decision that was driven by Justice Department policy, all to protect his own skin and his family’s fortune.

If this were the case, the elements of obstruction — in brief, the interference or attempted interference with an official proceeding, such as a grand jury investigation — would be plainly met. Most important, the president would have acted with corrupt intent as it is well understood under the law.


Quote:
All three of Mr. Trump’s pillars of defense support no weight. Mr. Mueller may have practical or policy reasons for staying his hand in finding obstruction, but he needn’t worry about the proffered legal impediments. They are all losers.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/03/o...ive-power.html
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  #1636  
Old 06-03-2018, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajoo View Post
On paper he does I think, but never been tested.
Interestingly though for the whell's of this world, why is Trump even talking about a pardon or impeachment if he is not guilty of any wrongdoing?
Didn't the Dotard say that innocent people do not need lawyers.
I read Don's article and another. Both the can and can't position are supported by legals scholars. If Donald tries it looks like the courts will decide. No way it doesn't get to The Supremes. It would be a gas if he pardoned himself, but I still don't think he'll have to.
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Last edited by nailer; 06-03-2018 at 05:14 PM.
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  #1637  
Old 06-03-2018, 05:08 PM
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I suspect this memo was deliberately leaked by Trump's team as part of their public relations campaign. Their faithful lemmings will happily regurgitate this nonsense in every possible venue. I'm sure Whell has bought into every tenet of this ridiculous memo and will parrot it here in due time.
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  #1638  
Old 06-03-2018, 05:59 PM
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Rajoo Rajoo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nailer View Post
I read Don's article and another. Both the can and can't position are supported by legals scholars. If Donald tries it looks like the courts will decide. No way it doesn't get to The Supremes. It would be a gas if he pardoned himself, but I still don't think he'll have to.
I think so too. This could become very interesting and probably will help the country if he does pardon himself. What a way to get into the history books though.
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  #1639  
Old 06-03-2018, 06:07 PM
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Pio1980 Pio1980 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nailer View Post
Mueller and his team are conducting a politically motivated criminal investigation. It’s a criminal investigation because that’s the FBI’s job. It’s politically motivated because the establishment is out to get the anti-establishment populist who managed to get himself elected president. Most American politicians represent the establishment, especially on the national level, and as such they are an important part of our nation’s establishment. Both sides of Senate’s aisle are pretty much establishment. In the House there are some somewhat anti-establishment members, a bit more so on the Republican side. Trump represents a threat to the establishment’s status quo which is why they are out to get him.

How did we end up with this anti-establishment populist in our highest office? Donald Trump has hated the elitist NY establishment for a long time; he’s anti-establishment to his core. Clothing himself in populist garb, aided greatly by what he learned in becoming a reality TV star, he stole the Republican nomination, much to the party’s chagrin. The GOP has only itself to blame. Prior to 1968 both parties had their fair share of racists, but with the passage of the Civil Rights Act and the GOP welcoming the rejected Southerners with open arms, the GOP found itself a winning combination. With the advent of political correctness, the politically incorrect who weren’t already voting Republican due to their racism became more ballot fodder for GOP candidates. It was Trump’s ability to sway this key Republican constituency that earned him the candidacy.

So we now have an anti-establishment populist President who threatens the establishment’s status quo. Any wonder they’re out to get him. Trump is correct that Mueller is conducting a witch hunt because from the establishment’s perspective he is a witch. Burn him!
Is Mueller a politically biased hack on a political "witch hunt" disguised as an investigation into foreign political interference ?
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/16/u...ion-guide.html
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  #1640  
Old 06-03-2018, 06:17 PM
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Pio1980 Pio1980 is offline
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Directed to the forum in general.
Who would you trust as POTUS?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.7623bf4ee66c
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Last edited by Pio1980; 06-03-2018 at 06:54 PM.
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