2nd Amendment in 1930s Germany?

[ebacon]

And remember that not every German agreed with Hitler or the war. My German grandfather served and hated it. He was an opera singer at heart, not a submariner. My German grandmother said that villagers hated it when the German soldiers came into town because they raided the farms for food.

The front line of war sucks, but the view from the assembly line ain't bad.

[icenine]

Tea Party on the right.
Moral equivalency on the left or middle.

I do not agree with Pete on many things but the longer I am here the more I know he has read up on things and generally knows what he is talking about.

[icenine]

I agree with you 100 percent Dave. But the example you are using is perhaps not the best. He gained control though democratic means by winning in the Reichstag a plurality ( I can't remember if it was a majority I could be wrong) in 1933. Then he convinced Hindenberg to appoint him Chancellor and he then took complete control. In other words the German people elected him and then he subverted Democracy after he became Chancellor. He did not really rise to power against the will of the people since he was elected.

I hate people even implying that American presidents past or present dead or alive Republican or Democrat are anything similar to Hitler.

[ebacon]

Originally Posted by icenine

. . . I hate people even implying that American presidents past or present dead or alive Republican or Democrat are anything similar to Hitler.

There's a disconnect here.

The original question was whether a second amendment would have prevented Hitler's reign. I merely think it would not have. Citizens are simply too well behaved to shoot each other over political differences. They have to be pushed pretty hard to start shooting back at their own government and, since that is the way they behave, the second amendment has no net effect on reigning in government.

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by ebacon

There's a disconnect here.

The original question was whether a second amendment would have prevented Hitler's reign. I merely think it would not have. Citizens are simply too well behaved to shoot each other over political differences. They have to be pushed pretty hard to start shooting back at their own government and, since that is the way they behave, the second amendment has no net effect on reigning in government.

Yes, we have gotten a bit off track (as usual). I don't believe it would have either. The one thing the German example, and others, shows is that you can't necessarily depend on the military to turn on the government. Soldiers follow orders. And the military is a department of the government after all. That's where the military paychecks and all associated bennies come from.

And, honestly, I think that, even here, if it came right down to it most of these NRA blowhards would hand over weapons with little more than a whimper. At the end of the day, they'll start worrying about how ending up dead or in jail would impact their families and so on. Oh, there'd be some, but not enough to make much difference.

Remember what Uncle Ted bellowed last year? Well, where is it? Is he "dead or in jail". So full of shit................

The cat is out of the bag, it isn't 1790 anymore and the government has amassed far more deadly weapons and vast networks of military, intelligence and law enforcement agencies...........and everyone knows it. Hell, that's a big part of what all the fuss is about. Is anyone dumb enough to think Uncle Sam isn't watching for potential insurrectionists and making contingency plans? Who is it that decides who is an insurrectionist and who isn't? Your local Tea Party zealots? Oh, spare me, please.

Regards,
Dave

[icenine]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

Yes, we have gotten a bit off track (as usual). I don't believe it would have either. The one thing the German example, and others, shows is that you can't necessarily depend on the military to turn on the government. Soldiers follow orders. And the military is a department of the government after all. That's where the military paychecks and all associated bennies come from.

And, honestly, I think that, even here, if it came right down to it most of these NRA blowhards would hand over weapons with little more than a whimper. At the end of the day, they'll start worrying about how ending up dead or in jail would impact their families and so on. Oh, there'd be some, but not enough to make much difference.

Remember what Uncle Ted bellowed last year? Well, where is it? Is he "dead or in jail". So full of shit................

The cat is out of the bag, it isn't 1790 anymore and the government has amassed far more deadly weapons and vast networks of military, intelligence and law enforcement agencies...........and everyone knows it. Hell, that's a big part of what all the fuss is about. Is anyone dumb enough to think Uncle Sam isn't watching for potential insurrectionists and making contingency plans? Who is it that decides who is an insurrectionist and who isn't? Your local Tea Party zealots? Oh, spare me, please.

Regards,
Dave

So your point is a well armed populace would not rise up and revolt against tyranny imposed from above, using Nazi Germany as your example. I can see that point. So arguments like having unlimited access to semi-automatic weapons in order to fight against a tyrannical Federal government is downright silly because at the end of the day the Feds would win since a well paid national military is on their side. Well maybe that is true but I have faith that our government and nation will never get to that point.

We could point to present day Syria as a point against your argument.However, the United States has a pretty good record of not opening fire on peaceful demonstrators, is a representative democratic republic that allows for the peaceful transfer of power, and is a bastion of religious and civilian liberty. We are not Assad's Syria or Nazi Germany.

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by icenine

I agree with you 100 percent Dave. But the example you are using is perhaps not the best. He gained control though democratic means by winning in the Reichstag a plurality ( I can't remember if it was a majority I could be wrong) in 1933. Then he convinced Hindenberg to appoint him Chancellor and he then took complete control. In other words the German people elected him and then he subverted Democracy after he became Chancellor. He did not really rise to power against the will of the people since he was elected.

I hate people even implying that American presidents past or present dead or alive Republican or Democrat are anything similar to Hitler.

Yes, I know. In fact this is what I am pointing out.

[piece-itpete]

The problem is we're nothing like tween war Germany.

My apologies Dave, I feel like I jumped the gun on that one. We were just discussing Schicklegruber in another thread and I was overly sensitive, as rust belt righties tend to be

'Dolphie didn't have any problems with homosexuality on the down low for sure, but that would be the classical mold of perfect soldier. He needed babies to feed into his machine.

He was progessive in one way - to get those babies he encouraged German girls to bang away.

Ice thanks, I've fooled another one You can completely believe me when I say Obama is the antichrist

EB, social worker, or weapons engineer? I have no problems cutting the military right now, at least the small amount considered.

Pete

[icenine]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

The problem is we're nothing like tween war Germany.

My apologies Dave, I feel like I jumped the gun on that one. We were just discussing Schicklegruber in another thread and I was overly sensitive, as rust belt righties tend to be

'Dolphie didn't have any problems with homosexuality on the down low for sure, but that would be the classical mold of perfect soldier. He needed babies to feed into his machine.

He was progessive in one way - to get those babies he encouraged German girls to bang away.

Ice thanks, I've fooled another one You can completely believe me when I say Obama is the antichrist

EB, social worker, or weapons engineer? I have no problems cutting the military right now, at least the small amount considered.

Pete

oK

by the way your plan about dying a year early to save Medicare is great...
you first lol

[piece-itpete]

The Church backed him too.

Pete