Will the Teapublicans Force America Into Default?

[Charles]

Originally Posted by finnbow

True, but there's a difference between slimeball Machiavellian tactics (Dems, in this instance) and outright insanity/delusion (GOP in this instance). Both parties have had their moments of profound idiocy, but this Teabagger shit takes the cake.

Personally, I think the Pubbies may have overplayed their hand on this one. Maybe they're banking on raising support from the independents, but IMHO they'll get the blame.

It's all about the next election cycle anyway. And when you get right down to it, they're all going to basically do the same thing.

Our current path is unsustainable, other than to create more money and devalue our currency. And cover our debt with inflated dollars. I just hope they don't clean me out before I die.

It's not that our fearless leaders are corrupt...which they are. It's more like the whole damn system is corrupt.

At least that's my thoughts on the matter.

Chas

[d-ray657]

Originally Posted by Charles

Personally, I think the Pubbies may have overplayed their hand on this one. Maybe they're banking on raising support from the independents, but IMHO they'll get the blame.

It's all about the next election cycle anyway. And when you get right down to it, they're all going to basically do the same thing.

Our current path is unsustainable, other than to create more money and devalue our currency. And cover our debt with inflated dollars. I just hope they don't clean me out before I die.

It's not that our fearless leaders are corrupt...which they are. It's more like the whole damn system is corrupt.

At least that's my thoughts on the matter.

Chas

Chas, maybe you can help me understand a couple of things.

First, do you believe that predictions of severe financial repercussions as a result of the refusal to raise the debt limit are overstated?

How serious, if at all, would be the consequences of failing to increase the debt limit?

Explain this in simple terms, I'm not an economist.

But, if the consequences of missing the debt limit deadline are severe, is it in any way responsible governance to threaten such consequences simply to revisit a battle that has been lost again and again?

If you were in the shoes of the President, would you be willing to negotiate under these circumstances?

Regards,

D-Ray

[Charles]

Originally Posted by d-ray657

Chas, maybe you can help me understand a couple of things.

First, do you believe that predictions of severe financial repercussions as a result of the refusal to raise the debt limit are overstated?

How serious, if at all, would be the consequences of failing to increase the debt limit?

Explain this in simple terms, I'm not an economist.

But, if the consequences of missing the debt limit deadline are severe, is it in any way responsible governance to threaten such consequences simply to revisit a battle that has been lost again and again?

If you were in the shoes of the President, would you be willing to negotiate under these circumstances?

Regards,

D-Ray

You sly devil.

To start with, we have something in common, neither of us are economists. I deal in general theory, drawn from what I consider to be rational thought based on my personal empirical experiences.

In other words, I am only submitting my observations and conclusions based on my limited knowledge. I am not attempting to pass myself off as a false authority.

I'll leave that to those who know all of the answers.

Heading West.

I don't see that the United States has an alternative but to increase the debt limit. It's the rules of the game. The really smart guys say the should we default on our obligations, it will crash the market, raise interest rates, increase unemployment, possibly endanger the dollar as the reserve currency, etc, etc.

And as much as I despise the really smart guys, who I figure had more than a little to do with bringing to this point, I suspect that they are correct.

Switching gears.

Look at just how much goods and services you could buy with one Yankee dollar in 1913 as opposed to 2013. My point is, our currency, which is the means of trading the sweat of our brow, is being devalued.

Now that's too kewl for skool it you're in debt, you're paying back the sweat of someone's brow with devalued currency. Now if you're some dumb bastard such as myself, who is trying to save, and invest...they're stealing your undershorts.

It's currency manipulation, and dumb fucks such as ourselves may get lucky and win a time or two...but it's still like going to Vegas. The house sets the odds, and you will lose in the long run.

In conclusion.

It's the only game in town, and you have no choice but to play. With the guys who are controlling the magnets under the roulette wheel.

But since it's the only game in town, shouldn't we be trying to increase our odds by attempting to control the excessive waste of the Federal Government, and even applying a sort of means testing to the regulations that they, excuse my French, pretty much pull out of their asses to support their chosen agenda?

My disclaimer.

The world is overpopulated, and we're entering the robot age. Even I will admit that the age of fossil fuels will end...like it or not.

And if I were one of our masters, I would give a certain amount of credence as to the only salvation of mankind is to kill app 75% of the population.

BTW, if I were Obama, I wouldn't fold to the Pubbies, unless the winds of public opinion changes...and he's holding all of the cards at the moment.

The dumb shits have put themselves in a no win situation almost as bad as he put himself in over Syria.

I'm outta gas.

Chas

[d-ray657]

Originally Posted by Charles

switching gears.

Look at just how much goods and services you could buy with one Yankee dollar in 1913 as opposed to 2013. My point is, our currency, which is the means of trading the sweat of our brow, is being devalued.

Chas

First off Chas, thanks for taking the time to answer my smart-assed question.

We agree on more than one thing. I think both of us distrust the powers that be. I have a little less trust in the ones that buy the politicians than I do in the ones who can be voted out of office. And I actually think that there are people who work for regulatory agencies who want to make things safer, cleaner, healthier etc.

I think we're reading different history books, though. While the dollar might have gone further in 1913 for those that had some money, I think that the middle class is much smaller than than it is now. Unfortunately I think we both see that the middle class is shrinking again. I'm not quite sure how to change that, but I don't think that the folks who sponsored the tea party are all that interested in the middle class.

Regards,

D-Ray

[HatchetJack]

I think in the end both sides just want what's best for the country. The problem
is we can't afford what's best under the current state of the economy. Adjustments
need to be made to put us in a better position to succeed against
global competition. Borrowing more and more money to fund the old way just
digs us a deeper hole we are never coming out of. We still have a chance for
the country not to fall although it's a small chance. Continuing to fund the
Government we have now is ruining any chance our children have to experience
the life WE have known. It's just selfish and irresponsible on our part to keep
kicking the can down the road. My hats off the to right for standing their ground
on this issue. Tough love

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by HatchetJack

I think in the end both sides just want what's best for the country....

That's a copout, a false equivalency. FWIW, Hitler wanted what was best for der Vaterland (in his fevered mind, anyway).

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by HatchetJack

I think in the end both sides just want what's best for the country. The problem
is we can't afford what's best under the current state of the economy. Adjustments
need to be made to put us in a better position to succeed against
global competition. Borrowing more and more money to fund the old way just
digs us a deeper hole we are never coming out of. We still have a chance for
the country not to fall although it's a small chance. Continuing to fund the
Government we have now is ruining any chance our children have to experience
the life WE have known. It's just selfish and irresponsible on our part to keep
kicking the can down the road. My hats off the to right for standing their ground
on this issue. Tough love

Agreed, right up to here;

"Continuing to fund the Government we have now is ruining any chance our children have to experience the life WE have known."

I don't believe that at all. In fact, I think it's just another scare tactic to add to the long and growing list.

Besides, Jack, the life I have known, and the America I love, has already been pretty much ruined by corporate executives looking to fatten up their bottom line through outsourcing.

Dave

[Charles]

Originally Posted by d-ray657

First off Chas, thanks for taking the time to answer my smart-assed question.

We agree on more than one thing. I think both of us distrust the powers that be. I have a little less trust in the ones that buy the politicians than I do in the ones who can be voted out of office. And I actually think that there are people who work for regulatory agencies who want to make things safer, cleaner, healthier etc.

I think we're reading different history books, though. While the dollar might have gone further in 1913 for those that had some money, I think that the middle class is much smaller than than it is now. Unfortunately I think we both see that the middle class is shrinking again. I'm not quite sure how to change that, but I don't think that the folks who sponsored the tea party are all that interested in the middle class.

Regards,

D-Ray

WWII probably had more to do with expanding the middle class than anything. Probably best not to point this out to our political masters.

Chas

[icenine]

Originally Posted by Charles

Personally, I think the Pubbies may have overplayed their hand on this one. Maybe they're banking on raising support from the independents, but IMHO they'll get the blame.

It's all about the next election cycle anyway. And when you get right down to it, they're all going to basically do the same thing.

Our current path is unsustainable, other than to create more money and devalue our currency. And cover our debt with inflated dollars. I just hope they don't clean me out before I die.

It's not that our fearless leaders are corrupt...which they are. It's more like the whole damn system is corrupt.

At least that's my thoughts on the matter.

Chas

Have you ever been outside of the United States in your life?
I have
this place kicks the shit out of the third world.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by icenine

Have you ever been outside of the United States in your life?
I have
this place kicks the shit out of the third world.

Whoopee. Unfortunately, we don't fare so well when compared to other First World nations.