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  #21  
Old 04-06-2011, 02:05 PM
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I figured that Madison was a pretty intelligent man and honest to the point that he did not let his notes on the debates be published until all the delegates were dead.

Now they are written in an earlier form of English than is in current usage, but still quite understandable. If you try to understand the Constitution and what the Framers intended without reading Madison's notes all I can say is good luck.
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  #22  
Old 04-06-2011, 02:30 PM
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Understood, however we're talking about how they viewed the federal government - a foreign entity.

They would be up in arms today. The federal government was never supposed to interfere directly in our affairs, with extremely limited exceptions, let alone rule us.

Pete
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Old 04-06-2011, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by piece-itpete View Post
Understood, however we're talking about how they viewed the federal government - a foreign entity.

They would be up in arms today. The federal government was never supposed to interfere directly in our affairs, with extremely limited exceptions, let alone rule us.

Pete
Well I have nly read Madison's notes about four times, so maybe I need to run through them yet again because nowhere did I get that impression. In fact, as the Preamble states "In order to form a more perfect government. . ." because the Confederation (all states rights and little or no central government) bloody well was not working. We either have one country or fifty countries. When I read the naruralization certificate it says that I am a citizen of the United States, not Maryland. And the idea that fifty experiments have a better chance of finding the right answer is horse pucky. It may work in the chemistry lab, it does not work in politics. That's why the Chinese et. al. are eating our children's lunch.
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Old 04-06-2011, 02:53 PM
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Even the staunchist Federalist, like Madison, would be aghast at the scope of the current federal government.

Pete
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Old 04-06-2011, 02:56 PM
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Even the staunchist Federalist, like Madison, would be aghast at the scope of the current federal government.

Pete
Maybe, maybe not. Who knows? It just doesn't matter any more what somebody dead for 200 years would have thought.
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  #26  
Old 04-06-2011, 03:15 PM
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Even the staunchist Federalist, like Madison, would be aghast at the scope of the current federal government.

Pete
So we leave it all to the states? Now the feds are not the greatest, but compared to the states they are rank amateurs in the corruption department. We even have some states talking about forming militias, hoo boy Kosovo here we come.
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  #27  
Old 04-06-2011, 03:18 PM
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Then why don't we tear up the Constitution and write another one? Jeffereson would've agreed.

Or we could simply ignore it and give the government free reign...

I always marvel at folks who so easily discount the often amazing folks that sacrificed, that gave us the life we enjoy today.

"The essential principles of our Government... form the bright constellation which has gone before us and guided our steps through an age of revolution and reformation. The wisdom of our sages and blood of our heroes have been devoted to their attainment. They should be the creed of our political faith, the text of civic instruction, the touchstone by which to try the services of those we trust; and should we wander from them in moments of error or of alarm, let us hasten to retrace our steps and to regain the road which alone leads to peace, liberty and safety."

Pete
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  #28  
Old 04-06-2011, 03:32 PM
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So we leave it all to the states? Now the feds are not the greatest, but compared to the states they are rank amateurs in the corruption department. We even have some states talking about forming militias, hoo boy Kosovo here we come.
Agreed, but if a State goes bad one can leave. If the Feds go bad....

Which BTW is the biggest single argument I have with the one worlders

Pete
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  #29  
Old 04-06-2011, 04:02 PM
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Agreed, but if a State goes bad one can leave. If the Feds go bad....

Which BTW is the biggest single argument I have with the one worlders

Pete
Great on paper but not reality. Look at how there are jobs available is some places but people cannot move because they have an underwater mortgage. And screw one world government.
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  #30  
Old 04-06-2011, 04:03 PM
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Maybe, maybe not. Who knows? It just doesn't matter any more what somebody dead for 200 years would have thought.
Right, because our Government today bears little resemblance to what was originally envisioned, and we've bloody well ignored the process Madison and company set forth that would have allowed (or denied) the changes that have gotten us to the point we're at today. We sure as hell wouldn't want the opinion of someone like Madison gumming up the works.
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