|
|
We appreciate your help
in keeping this site going.
|
|
04-06-2011, 02:05 PM
|
|
Resident octogenarian
|
|
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 20,860
|
|
I figured that Madison was a pretty intelligent man and honest to the point that he did not let his notes on the debates be published until all the delegates were dead.
Now they are written in an earlier form of English than is in current usage, but still quite understandable. If you try to understand the Constitution and what the Framers intended without reading Madison's notes all I can say is good luck.
__________________
Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people.
Eleanor Roosevelt
|
04-06-2011, 02:30 PM
|
|
Possibly admin. Maybe ;)
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Land of the burning river
Posts: 21,098
|
|
Understood, however we're talking about how they viewed the federal government - a foreign entity.
They would be up in arms today. The federal government was never supposed to interfere directly in our affairs, with extremely limited exceptions, let alone rule us.
Pete
__________________
“How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.”
|
04-06-2011, 02:40 PM
|
|
Resident octogenarian
|
|
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 20,860
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by piece-itpete
Understood, however we're talking about how they viewed the federal government - a foreign entity.
They would be up in arms today. The federal government was never supposed to interfere directly in our affairs, with extremely limited exceptions, let alone rule us.
Pete
|
Well I have nly read Madison's notes about four times, so maybe I need to run through them yet again because nowhere did I get that impression. In fact, as the Preamble states "In order to form a more perfect government. . ." because the Confederation (all states rights and little or no central government) bloody well was not working. We either have one country or fifty countries. When I read the naruralization certificate it says that I am a citizen of the United States, not Maryland. And the idea that fifty experiments have a better chance of finding the right answer is horse pucky. It may work in the chemistry lab, it does not work in politics. That's why the Chinese et. al. are eating our children's lunch.
__________________
Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people.
Eleanor Roosevelt
|
04-06-2011, 02:53 PM
|
|
Possibly admin. Maybe ;)
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Land of the burning river
Posts: 21,098
|
|
Even the staunchist Federalist, like Madison, would be aghast at the scope of the current federal government.
Pete
__________________
“How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.”
|
04-06-2011, 02:56 PM
|
|
Reformed Know-Nothing
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: MoCo, MD
Posts: 25,857
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by piece-itpete
Even the staunchist Federalist, like Madison, would be aghast at the scope of the current federal government.
Pete
|
Maybe, maybe not. Who knows? It just doesn't matter any more what somebody dead for 200 years would have thought.
__________________
As long as the roots are not severed, all will be well in the garden.
|
04-06-2011, 03:15 PM
|
|
Resident octogenarian
|
|
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 20,860
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by piece-itpete
Even the staunchist Federalist, like Madison, would be aghast at the scope of the current federal government.
Pete
|
So we leave it all to the states? Now the feds are not the greatest, but compared to the states they are rank amateurs in the corruption department. We even have some states talking about forming militias, hoo boy Kosovo here we come.
__________________
Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people.
Eleanor Roosevelt
|
04-06-2011, 03:18 PM
|
|
Possibly admin. Maybe ;)
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Land of the burning river
Posts: 21,098
|
|
Then why don't we tear up the Constitution and write another one? Jeffereson would've agreed.
Or we could simply ignore it and give the government free reign...
I always marvel at folks who so easily discount the often amazing folks that sacrificed, that gave us the life we enjoy today.
"The essential principles of our Government... form the bright constellation which has gone before us and guided our steps through an age of revolution and reformation. The wisdom of our sages and blood of our heroes have been devoted to their attainment. They should be the creed of our political faith, the text of civic instruction, the touchstone by which to try the services of those we trust; and should we wander from them in moments of error or of alarm, let us hasten to retrace our steps and to regain the road which alone leads to peace, liberty and safety."
Pete
__________________
“How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.”
|
04-06-2011, 03:32 PM
|
|
Possibly admin. Maybe ;)
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Land of the burning river
Posts: 21,098
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by merrylander
So we leave it all to the states? Now the feds are not the greatest, but compared to the states they are rank amateurs in the corruption department. We even have some states talking about forming militias, hoo boy Kosovo here we come.
|
Agreed, but if a State goes bad one can leave. If the Feds go bad....
Which BTW is the biggest single argument I have with the one worlders
Pete
__________________
“How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.”
|
04-06-2011, 04:02 PM
|
|
Resident octogenarian
|
|
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 20,860
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by piece-itpete
Agreed, but if a State goes bad one can leave. If the Feds go bad....
Which BTW is the biggest single argument I have with the one worlders
Pete
|
Great on paper but not reality. Look at how there are jobs available is some places but people cannot move because they have an underwater mortgage. And screw one world government.
__________________
Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people.
Eleanor Roosevelt
|
04-06-2011, 04:03 PM
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 13,016
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by finnbow
Maybe, maybe not. Who knows? It just doesn't matter any more what somebody dead for 200 years would have thought.
|
Right, because our Government today bears little resemblance to what was originally envisioned, and we've bloody well ignored the process Madison and company set forth that would have allowed (or denied) the changes that have gotten us to the point we're at today. We sure as hell wouldn't want the opinion of someone like Madison gumming up the works.
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:14 AM.
|