John Adams on Public Education

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

I think you guys know it is the classical definition of 'Liberal', not what we call you crazy left-wingers today

No comments on his views of the Bible?

Pete

Hey, the right wing has co-opted the word conservative. We'll co-opt the word liberal when it suits our fancy and helps throw the Right into a tizzy.

Regarding Adams, he was a Unitarian, was he not? I guess in today's terms, he would be a dreaded secular humanist.

[Fast_Eddie]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

I think you guys know it is the classical definition of 'Liberal', not what we call you crazy left-wingers today

Indeed we do. That's what makes it funny.

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

No comments on his views of the Bible?

I'm familiar with some of his thoughts, but I'd be interested in what exactly you are refering to Pete. In the past when I've talked to you about such issues you've not seemed willing to admit that any of our Founding Fathers were anything other than good dogmatic Christians.

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

I think you guys know it is the classical definition of 'Liberal', not what we call you crazy left-wingers today

Maybe so. But then "classical liberalism" doesn't necessarily mesh with modern day conservatism, either. Does it?

No comments on his views of the Bible?

Other than the fact that his father was a deacon, and that he, (John) studied "scriptures three days per week", no. But, then, I am only just starting Chapter Three. So far I take it he had some fairly strong religious beliefs. But, then so did Jefferson............

Pete

Regards,
Dave

[piece-itpete]

I figured you guys were yanking 'our' chains....

I am not a dogmatic Christian. Salvation is a gift from God, not dogma. Christians are people too and sin. It doesn't mean they're not Christians! John Adams, not a Christian?

Although there are plenty of folks who believe Unitarians are going to hell. I'm not so sure I know better than God.

"The general principles, on which the Fathers achieved independence, were the only Principles in which that beautiful Assembly of young Gentlemen could Unite....And what were these general Principles? I answer, the general Principles of Christianity, in which all these Sects were United: . . . Now I will avow, that I then believe, and now believe, that those general Principles of Christianity, are as eternal and immutable, as the Existence and Attributes of God; and that those Principles of Liberty, are as unalterable as human Nature and our terrestrial, mundane System."

John Adams - Lester J. Capon, ed., The Adams-Jefferson Letters 2 vols. (Chapel Hill, NC: University of North Carolina Press, 1959), 2:339-40

"The Christian religion is, above all the religions that ever prevailed or existed in ancient or modern times, the religion of wisdom, virtue equity and humanity…"

John Adams, The Works of John Adams, Second President of the United States, Charles Francis Adams, Ed., (Boston: Little, Brown and Co., 1856) III:421, dairy entry for July 26, 1796.

That odd fact I keep coming across in various arguments is that most Founders weren't 'real' Christians. Interesting argument! Heck, they all went to church.

Pete

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

That odd fact I keep coming across in various arguments is that most Founders weren't 'real' Christians.

Well, not in the right-wing, radical, evangelical, fruitcake, Southern Baptist and hate machine manner that the tea Baggers -- and single-toothed southerners with confederate flags on their 1974 Ford Maverick with a gun rack -- would try to get us to believe.

Providing, of course, they accept the legitimacy of any Founding Father beyond Jefferson Davis.

I'm in a mood, today...

[piece-itpete]

Heck, they taught the Bible in public schools!

Anyway, don't mean to threadjack, I'll bow out (as gracefully as a Polack can).

Pete

[hillbilly]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

Heck, they taught the Bible in public schools!



Pete

They still do in highschool where I live, and kids are graded on it. Alot of places probly don't I'm sure, but here you'd be hard pressed to find a parent that would vote no to Bible teaching in school. Until more non believers move in on us, we should be safe to carry on for a while. I remember my sons 9'th grade teacher standing before his class the last day of school before Christmas break. He told the class that the school was informed they could no longer wish kids a Merry Christmas and are sposed to be saying Happy Hollidays. He said, '' I'd like to take this time to wish each and every one of you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year ''. Now, my question is, why can't other schools show some balls?

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by hillbilly

Until more non believers move in on us, we should be safe to carry on for a while.

Merely because you don't want an allegorical book, edited by King James, forced upon children as graded criteria doesn't mean you're a non-believer.

It means you can think and don't believe in talking snakes.

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

. . ."The Christian religion is, above all the religions that ever prevailed or existed in ancient or modern times, the religion of wisdom, virtue equity and humanity…"

John Adams, The Works of John Adams, Second President of the United States, Charles Francis Adams, Ed., (Boston: Little, Brown and Co., 1856) III:421, dairy entry for July 26, 1796.

Pete

Really? Was this the same religion that mounted the Crusades and pillaged the Holy Land? Not to mention the Jews they slaughtered on the way to Jerusalem.

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

(as gracefully as a Polack can).

Gee, I wonder if Twodogs is ok with polacks