Obama the Pragmatic Moderate

[piece-itpete]

Yeah there's big problems with that chart, need to find one in the CBOs site. Almost certainly to do with social securitys ripoff of the century. No time for digging, will be back

Pete

[finnbow]

Anyway how about government spending as a percentage of GDP.

On the graph you provided, you'll note that the biggest differences between revenue and expenditure (deficit as % of GDP) since WWII occurred during Reagan and Dubya and the least during Clinton (this defies conventional wisdom, n'est ce pas?).

Also, FWIW the deficit as a percentage of GDP appears to be a glide path for improvement under Obama (after he fixes Dubya's mess). On this last point, however, I'll have to see it to believe it.

[piece-itpete]

We need to subtract the ious for ss.

Pete

[merrylander]

So why get on the case of SS when any shortfall it might have is entirely dependent on Congress stealing from it? I paid enough into it Lord know, I was just fortunate enough to have worked the required number of months, else all I put in would have been for nowt. Oh yeah, the BS about it being for your golden years at a lower taxe rate? Well Dubya's minions insisted that I take it at 65 so I paid the IRS 35% of it until I retired at 73. What they do with all that tax, pissed it up against the wall in Iraq and Afghanistan.

[Charles]

Back on topic, I feel that if Obama is a moderate it is due to his situation more than his choice.

Pragmatic, he does seem to have a grasp on what he can manage to accomplish.

Chas

[piece-itpete]

I'm not slamming ss for it, it's all Congress. What a giant scam, if we ever needed proof we're all a bunch of idiots...

Pete

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by Fast_Eddie

Tough to read. The rhetoric has gotten pretty bad. He sure manages it well I think, but they're so out of control and have so many media mouth pieces they may be too much to stop. I'm really afraid for the country if these people ever actually get what they say they want.

Most prosperous country in the world, with more liberty than anyone, lower taxes than most Western nations and there are thousands of people marching on Washington with a vailed threat of armed isurrection. The people behind these messages know what they're doing, but the people on the ground are taking them at their word. They really believe they're over taxed and their freedom is at stake.

And what freedom exactly is it they've lost? Well, some of their personal privacy I guess, but that's not Obama's doing. I'm not clear if they can still be held without being charged as they could under the previous administration, but again, can't lay that at Obama's feet. What significat program do they want eliminated? Millitary spending? I don't see signs for that, even though it would be the easiest place to cut spending in a massive way. Social Security? You'd have to change the law to cut it, but I don't see the signs for that either. I hope they run a Republican on a "Kill Social Security" platform but I know I won't see that. Medicade/Medicare? Well, same thing.

So there's the bulk of the budget. If we killed everything else it wouldn't make a huge difference in anyone's tax burden. So what is it they want exactly? As they march past the monuments and memorials, what is it they want to change?

The questions that will never be answered. Because there are no good answers. They're just angry because someone told them to be angry but never explained why. Reagan told them that taxes were too high. Maybe they were. But they were lowered again and again. What other country has done a better job? If there's an example out there I'd love to explore how they're doing it and what we can learn from them. But I don't see them holding up any example.

As I've said before, I think America is a dang good place to live. Feel like I won the lottery being born here. Should we continue to srtive to make things better? Sure- and the health care reform legislation is a great start. But wholesale changes to America? No thank you. I'm good. The only big thing I'd like to see change is the preception of our great nation in some corners of the world. And yes, I think Obama is a better person to take that on than we've had in a while.

Well, they want to go back to "The Good Ol' Days", which were...........................

Dave

[piece-itpete]

Clinton and Carter?

Or Johnson and Roosevelt

Pete

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

Clinton and Carter?

Or Johnson and Roosevelt

Pete

Given their mindset most likely Hoover.

[BlueStreak]

The "Gilded Age". You know. When a man could build a railroad using "coolie" labor(1), run his trains on coal mined under the gun(2) to carry goods manufactured in sweatshops, by children(3). You know, the days before all of those pesky "progressive" labor laws that cramp a capitalists style and curtail his Constitutional right to the biggest asshole he can be. Before evil people like Teddy Roosevelt, Eleanor Roosevelt and John L. Lewis came along and ruined all of the fun.

Those "Good ole Days".

Regards,
Dave

(1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coolie

(2) http://www.du.edu/ludlow/cfphoto.html

(3) http://www2.needham.k12.ma.us/nhs/cu...hildlabor.html

In the avatar are striking workers, seen on the right with American flags, facing National Guard bayonettes.
Lawrence Textile Strike, 1912. One of the bloodiest affairs in U.S. Labor history.