Impeachment Bill filed.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

That glosses over the details. Obama was quite careful at first to position US involvement in Libya as supportive only. Remember the rather strange comments he made, suggesting that the "kinetic activity" in Libya could be addressed by European forces, and that our involvement could be measured in days not weeks?

Reality turned out to be quite different. Congress failed to hold him accountable then. Perhaps in the context of recent history, and recent comments, Congress is re-asserting itself.

Looking back at Libya and Iraq, it would be very tough to make the argument that Iraq was the better way to go. Depending on one's POV, one could argue that it's worse to mislead Congress and the American people to support an unnecessary war than "leading from behind" and ousting a tyrant (who had actually killed hundreds of Americans) without any American casualties and at minimum expense. Come to thing of it, that's probably the exact reason that Obama's critics are upset about it.

[whell]

I'm not sure how you can compare Libya and Iraq. Two entirely different scenarios in terms of geopolitics, internal politics / strife including the local's ability to fight, size, scope, forces required...the list goes on. For example, if there had been anything remotely like an "Arab Spring" going on in 2002' then maybe you'd have a basis for comparison.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

I'm not sure how you can compare Libya and Iraq.

It is indeed difficult. One was a bloody, expensive clusterphuck seemingly designed to enrich the military/industrial complex while handing Iraq over to Iran on a silver platter. The other was inexpensive, effective and bloodless (for our side anyway). Therein lies the rub for the GOP in the upcoming election. Their reputation as the party of national security is in tatters.

[piece-itpete]

Without Iraq we have no idea what would've developed in Libya. Dominos and all that.

And at least Bush got permission, much more than 'no hostilities' Obama.

Pete

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

Without Iraq we have no idea what would've developed in Libya. Dominos and all that.

And at least Bush got permission, much more than 'no hostilities' Obama.

Pete

It has at least as much (probably far more) to do with the suicide of a vegetable vendor in Tunisia that it did with us.

[whell]

Originally Posted by finnbow

It is indeed difficult. One was a bloody, expensive clusterphuck seemingly designed to enrich the military/industrial complex while handing Iraq over to Iran on a silver platter. The other was inexpensive, effective and bloodless (for our side anyway). Therein lies the rub for the GOP in the upcoming election. Their reputation as the party of national security is in tatters.

You do go to great lengths to make comparisons where none exist.

[neophyte]

Originally Posted by whell

You do go to great lengths to make comparisons where none exist.

there is considerable substance, and evidence of broad knowledge and historical understanding in the finnbow post you are referring to.

the fact that you are unwilling or unable (or any combination thereof) to grasp the points he made has no bearing on their validity.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by neophyte

there is considerable substance, and evidence of broad knowledge and historical understanding in the finnbow post you are referring to.

the fact that you are unwilling or unable (or any combination thereof) to grasp the points he made has no bearing on their validity.

[piece-itpete]

I thought that many had self-immolated. So what else changed?

I would say it doesn't happen in a vacuum, but he wouldn't have been able to breath or burn

Pete