Check Out the Scumbag Dem's In WI

[Charles]

Wonder what the 60% of teachers who DIDN'T call in sick think of this?

Chas

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by djv8ga

Really? How about you and me meeting up and working this out?

I have had it with the imbeciles.
Your post is exactly part of the problem. Do you realize even your owners laugh at you?

[merrylander]

The way those GOP twits would like it is that we all have our number tattooed on our foreheads, work our arse off until we can't any longer, then die like the Gov of Colorado once opined. Note that it is always the ones with both front feet in the public trough who want to cut everyone else's bennies.

[whell]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

Yeah, it's the cowards that stand up and fight to protect their interests. Real Americans just shut up, take their lumps and do as they're told.

Tell me something;
What do you think people work for, if not to make a living and build up a retirement? What, it's just supposed to be our patriotic duty to bust ass every day and expect nothing in return? We're supposed to bow and scrape for chump change-------why? Personal pride? It's the "moral" thing to do?

I have no qualms with telling you how I feel.......FUCK THAT!

Dave

Well, since we're letting the expletives fly, here's my $0.02:

I have no qualms with anyone making as much as they possibly can - pay, benefits, retirement, whatever - within the limits of what the market will bear. Wisconsin has been dealing with public sector unionization long enough to recognize the problem: the unions and the politicians have gotten in bed with each other, and the taxpayers are paying the ever increasing bill. The equation - capitulating to wage, benefit and pension demands = campaign contributions - has left most states and the Fed Gov't in a situation where wages and benefits for public sector employees have risen significantly above private sector wages and benefits for jobs with similar skills and qualifications.

Wisconsin and my home state of MI have gaping holes in the budget: the government in this state has continued to become more expensive every year while the state's population has been declining year after year. (We're losing 2 seats in the House of Representatives as a result.) Rather than right-size government to reflect the declining population, we decided to raise taxes on business in the middle of a recession to keep government afloat, including continuing to fund high wages, rich benefits and pensions for state employees.

Unemployment in Wisconsin is just shy of 8% (in MI, its off the map!). Many of those working have continued working through pay freezes, reductions to health benefits, or faced lay-offs and taken jobs to try and keep making ends meet during a recession. God forbid the civil servants take a wage cut or freeze, pay more for health care. Just let the strapped citizens of WI pay the extra freight every year, whether they're working, underemployed or unemployed.

The Federal House and Senate Republicans opposed the stimulus, and opposed health care reform. But at least they SHOWED UP, PARTICIPATED IN THE PROCESS, AND LET THEIR "NO" VOTE BE RECORDED. They didn't leave DC, get on a bus and hold themselves up in a RESORT while ducking their responsibilities to the citizens.


I have no qualms with telling you how I feel about the public sector unions and their lap dog politicians.......FUCK THAT!

EDIT: this is illustrative of the unsustainable situation in MI with wages and benefits for teachers. http://www.michigancapitolconfidential.com/12874. Combine this with the fact that in many school districts, teachers don't pay any portion of their health care premium, and have no co pay or deductibles.

[whell]

But don't you see, its all about the kids and giving them a better education.

http://www.fox6now.com/news/witi-021...,4838415.story

http://www.michigancapitolconfidential.com/14584

[finnbow]

Hold on to your hat, Whell. For the most part, I agree with your take on the Wisconsin issue. I wrote a post a month or so back that read much the same way (you friggin' plagiarist ).

There are a couple of things that give me pause WRT to the Wisconsin situation. From what I understand, one of the first actions the new Gov took was to cut taxes from high income individuals and businesses. Now it seems like he intends to balance the books on the backs of public sector employees who have wages/benefits based upon existing collecting bargaining agreements with the state. It seems reasonable that the teachers feel that he has reneged on an existing agreement in order to afford tax cuts for his cronies. Right or wrong, that's a reasonable perception.

Then he doesn't demand similar concessions from police and firemen. This seems somewhat akin to the GOP at the national level not wanting to touch defense spending. It reeks of jingoisim IMHO. If things are bad enough to warrant unilateral trashing of a CBA, then the police/firemen should also be subject to the ax.

Lastly, the manner in which he undertook his actions. It seems to me if you intend to back out of a collective bargaining agreement (even a bad one), you don't do it unilaterally. It must be negotiated in good faith.

Accordingly, I'm of two minds on this one. The Governor's Rambo style seems as much the problem as the intrasigence of the unions.

[whell]

Originally Posted by finnbow

Accordingly, I'm of two minds on this one. The Governor's Rambo style seems as much the problem as the intrasigence of the unions.

No, this is substance over style. The same crap is starting here in MI, and Gov Snyder is taking much more the nice - guy approach. I've sure that if Walker had sent the union flowers and candy they would have crapped all over it.

[merrylander]

When you state that public sector wages and benefots have outstripped the private sector is one way of looking at the situation. ANother way, and a more accurate way of stating the problem is thhat private sector wages (for the woorkig stiff) have not kept pace with inflation, and in fact have declined relative to 15 years ago.

Now if y'all want to swallow the GOP lies hook line and sinker, go right ahead as it is interesting to watch considering that I always believed screwing oneself was a physical impossibility.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

No, this is substance over style. The same crap is starting here in MI, and Gov Snyder is taking much more the nice - guy approach. I've sure that if Walker had sent the union flowers and candy they would have crapped all over it.

Perhaps so. But in the court of public opinion and for the sake of appearing to act in good faith, the Gov needs to try to give the unions an opportunity to offer concessions. When and if they stonewall, then you put the hammer down.

If the WI governor loses this battle, style will have played a role IMHO. In the eyes of many, he appears to be dead set on busting the union as much as on getting his fiscal house in order. People that may otherwise support him may side with the unions for this reason alone. Like it or not, in politics style/tactics matter.

[whell]

Originally Posted by finnbow

Perhaps so. But in the court of public opinion and for the sake of appearing to act in good faith, the Gov needs to try to give the unions an opportunity to offer concessions. When and if they stonewall, then you put the hammer down.

If the WI governor loses this battle, style will have played a role IMHO. In the eyes of many, he appears to be dead set on busting the union as much as on getting his fiscal house in order. People that may otherwise support him may side with the unions for this reason alone. Like it or not, in politics style/tactics matter.

We'll see. Of course, if the unions prevail in WI, MI, OH and elsewhere, we'll conclude that style matters not, and the wishes of the voters matter not.