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  #121  
Old 02-28-2018, 08:35 AM
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whell whell is offline
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Originally Posted by Rajoo View Post
Similar case can me made for the Reagan era and predictions are dire for the Trump tax cuts.

Tax Cuts Don't Lead to Economic Growth, a New 65-Year Study Finds

https://www.theatlantic.com/business...-finds/262438/
Give me a break. The Bush first term was met with the economic impact of the burst of the dot com bubble, the lingering impact of the Y2K scare. EGTRA was passed in June 2001, but then we had planes ramming into the WTC and the Pentagon. This caused the recession to deepen and lengthen, caused a huge ripple in the insurance / reinsurance markets and a significant downward push in stock prices. To say that the tax cut, and the face of that set of circumstances, "didn't lead to economic growth" is really playing pretty fast and loose with the facts.
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  #122  
Old 02-28-2018, 09:16 AM
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finnbow finnbow is offline
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Originally Posted by whell View Post
Give me a break. The Bush first term was met with the economic impact of the burst of the dot com bubble, the lingering impact of the Y2K scare. EGTRA was passed in June 2001, but then we had planes ramming into the WTC and the Pentagon. This caused the recession to deepen and lengthen, caused a huge ripple in the insurance / reinsurance markets and a significant downward push in stock prices. To say that the tax cut, and the face of that set of circumstances, "didn't lead to economic growth" is really playing pretty fast and loose with the facts.
His large tax cuts and the financing of two wars through debt did indeed greatly increase the national debt. It was yet another example of supply-side not working out as planned. Never has, never will because it defies the laws of economics and math.
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  #123  
Old 02-28-2018, 12:37 PM
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whell whell is offline
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Originally Posted by finnbow View Post
His large tax cuts and the financing of two wars through debt did indeed greatly increase the national debt. It was yet another example of supply-side not working out as planned. Never has, never will because it defies the laws of economics and math.
Once again, Finn jumps in and totally misses the point. Here's the specific part of the post that I was responding to.

In 1990, President George H. W. Bush raised taxes, and GDP growth increased over the next five years. In 1993, President Bill Clinton raised the top marginal tax rate, and GDP growth increased over the next five years. In 2001 and 2003, President Bush cut taxes, and we faced a disappointing expansion followed by a Great Recession.

That quote totally leaves out some pretty key facts to make the point.
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  #124  
Old 02-28-2018, 12:53 PM
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Rajoo Rajoo is offline
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Originally Posted by whell View Post
Give me a break. The Bush first term was met with the economic impact of the burst of the dot com bubble, the lingering impact of the Y2K scare. EGTRA was passed in June 2001, but then we had planes ramming into the WTC and the Pentagon. This caused the recession to deepen and lengthen, caused a huge ripple in the insurance / reinsurance markets and a significant downward push in stock prices. To say that the tax cut, and the face of that set of circumstances, "didn't lead to economic growth" is really playing pretty fast and loose with the facts.
The Deafness Before the Storm

Quote:
The direct warnings to Mr. Bush about the possibility of a Qaeda attack began in the spring of 2001. By May 1, the Central Intelligence Agency told the White House of a report that “a group presently in the United States” was planning a terrorist operation. Weeks later, on June 22, the daily brief reported that Qaeda strikes could be “imminent,” although intelligence suggested the time frame was flexible.
Bush II was warned and then as retaliation, he started a war in Iraq.
Whether you like it or not, he gets the blame for compounding our financial woes. Tax cuts, war(s) and the the beginning of TARP.

From the failing NYT of course.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/11/op...-warnings.html
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  #125  
Old 02-28-2018, 01:02 PM
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Pio1980 Pio1980 is offline
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(Ahem);
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...kansas/542532/
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  #126  
Old 02-28-2018, 03:13 PM
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finnbow finnbow is offline
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Originally Posted by whell View Post
Once again, Finn jumps in and totally misses the point. Here's the specific part of the post that I was responding to.

In 1990, President George H. W. Bush raised taxes, and GDP growth increased over the next five years. In 1993, President Bill Clinton raised the top marginal tax rate, and GDP growth increased over the next five years. In 2001 and 2003, President Bush cut taxes, and we faced a disappointing expansion followed by a Great Recession.

That quote totally leaves out some pretty key facts to make the point.
If you wish to continue believing in the magic of supply-side economics (aka you can have it all but have to pay for it with tax cuts), I guess you also believe in free lunches, fairy tales and Trump lies.
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  #127  
Old 02-28-2018, 07:13 PM
Chicks Chicks is offline
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American workers will see only a tiny portion of the corporate tax windfall

https://finance.yahoo.com/

Of the 90 of the largest publicly-traded companies that have announced plans an average of 6% of that tax-related income will go to workers, according to JUST Capital’s analysis.

“Perhaps most concerning is if we assume that all proceeds not already earmarked for other uses actually flow to management and shareholders in the form of stock buybacks or direct distributions, then 58% of corporate spending will be running counter to the public’s definition of what is just,” the report said.
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  #128  
Old 03-01-2018, 07:11 AM
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whell whell is offline
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Originally Posted by Chicks View Post
American workers will see only a tiny portion of the corporate tax windfall

https://finance.yahoo.com/

Of the 90 of the largest publicly-traded companies that have announced plans an average of 6% of that tax-related income will go to workers, according to JUST Capital’s analysis.

“Perhaps most concerning is if we assume that all proceeds not already earmarked for other uses actually flow to management and shareholders in the form of stock buybacks or direct distributions, then 58% of corporate spending will be running counter to the public’s definition of what is just,” the report said.
Recycling this goofy line of reasoning again. I thought we dealt with this in post 109. What is "just" - like there's some standard that even the left agrees on about what "just" actually looks like - is the the change in tax policy spurs continued economic growth that benefits everyone for the long term.
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  #129  
Old 03-01-2018, 07:14 AM
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whell whell is offline
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Originally Posted by finnbow View Post
If you wish to continue believing in the magic of supply-side economics (aka you can have it all but have to pay for it with tax cuts), I guess you also believe in free lunches, fairy tales and Trump lies.
Your debate tactic of building a straw dog just so you can kick it down is really getting tiring. Either you're doing that, or you really have no idea what the term means.
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  #130  
Old 03-01-2018, 07:23 AM
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finnbow finnbow is offline
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Originally Posted by whell View Post
Your debate tactic of building a straw dog just so you can kick it down is really getting tiring. Either you're doing that, or you really have no idea what the term means.
It means exactly that. Supply side theory says that tax cuts pay for themselves or actually increase tax revenue, thereby obviating the need and fervor for spending cuts. It was so under Reagan, Dubya and now Trump. Dispute it all you want, but it is as true as it ever was.
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