Takin' on water..

[piece-itpete]

Cost/benefit is the only real workable way to approach safety....

Pete

[JonL]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

Cost/benefit is the only real workable way to approach safety....

Pete

Which is precisely why we need a backstop of regulation, inspection, and enforcement.

A company's cost/benefit analysis may not align with society's cost/benefit analysis, especially when the risks are off in the future (carcinogens, environmental toxins), or affect predominantly those with little power (children, the poor, elderly, etc.)

I don't buy the libertarian argument that market forces will keep things in check. Maybe after a few dozen people are killed, or there's a rash of birth defects in 2nd generation offspring of users of a product (look up DES and pregnancy)... better to be proactive, IMO.

[piece-itpete]

Airlines operate that way. If the cost of lawsuits exceed the cost of a change or upgrade for their planes, they'll do it, otherwise no.

I'm not anti-regulation, but anti-unclear blanket regs. They just lead to tinpot dictatorships at the enforcement level imo, and no one, even the folks that wrote them, don't really know what they say. Hard to plan as a business.

Pete

[JonL]

C'mon, airlines and aircraft manufacture and maintenance are some of the most tightly regulated businesses out there! The reason air travel is so safe isn't because of lawsuits, it's because of very tight regulation. One could further make the argument that because of the safety that regulation provides across the board, the public is largely happy to fly and that's good for business. If the business was less regulated (and therefore IMO less safe), there would be less air travel and the business would suffer.

I hear all this anti-regulation rhetoric, but I'd like to see some examples of regulations that no one understands that makes it hard for businesses to plan. I'm sure there are some, but really-- how big a problem to you think it really is? Examples, please.

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

Cost/benefit is the only real workable way to approach safety....

Pete

So tell me, what are you worth alive vs dead?

[merrylander]

I trust that the posters who keep referring to the "free market" realize that it has never been free, but has always been manipulated.

[d-ray657]

Originally Posted by merrylander

I trust that the posters who keep referring to the "free market" realize that it has never been free, but has always been manipulated.

To tell you the truth, Rob, the ability of the big companies to manipulate the market, as well as the government, is the only thing that ever gives me a reason to think about a major shrinkage in government. However it's never been enough to convince me that watered-down restrictions on corporate power are better than no regulation at all.

Regards,

D-Ray

[piece-itpete]

My company is in insulation. I'm a little bit familiar with old asbestos sellers/users - good luck selling a company that has ANYTHING to do with that at any time....

My statement regarding Airlines is true, at least according to iirc Frontline.

Rob, I really believe as a society we need that discussion. Regardless we do put prices on life, otherwise cars would be so expensive we couldn't own them.

Pete

[JonL]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

My company is in insulation. I'm a little bit familiar with old asbestos sellers/users - good luck selling a company that has ANYTHING to do with that at any time....

Isn't that really an example of what happens with lawsuits and not regulation? There was no regulation on asbestos back in the day, even though the big asbestos companies knew full well of the hazards. Asbestos was used everywhere because the risk of lawsuits from asbestosis was far off in the future. That day has come, and the companies that were involved at the time may be suffering now, but the individual stockholders and executives back then most likely profited handsomely and enjoyed all their days being wealthy and healthy (unlike the miners). If there had been reasonable regulation on asbestos at the time, the problems you've alluded to (but haven't really described) wouldn't exist.

[piece-itpete]

The problem with asbestos is, it's a miracle mineral. It's simply amazing what you can do with it.

Too bad it's also horrible. They're still selling it in the third world

You are kinda correct though, not really regulation. So, ever do your own taxes?

Pete