WikiLeaks

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by Combwork

No problem Merrylander, that was indeed four too many but lets turn this around. Because some Muslims are extremists, should all Muslims be condemned? What the terrorists do is way beyond anything in the Koran, although like the Bible bits of it are ambiguous enough to be twisted to suit their needs.

How would the USA react if in order to avenge dead civilians, schoolchildren, hospital patients etc. Islamic extremists managed to destroy an American city or two? If your family were killed by an enemy who then said "hey, shit happens in war; collateral damage" how would you or your descendants react?

The IRA were murderers who tortured then killed anyone who were against them but eventually, like them or loath them (I loath them) we HAD to sit and talk. Keeping it to a military level, it took thousands of deaths plus two A bombs to beat the Japanese into submission. Would you personally go that far to try to destroy Islamic radicals or eventually, maybe through gritted teeth, sit down and talk? If the latter, would it not be better to do it now rather than later; to work with moderate Muslims to try to isolate extremists, or is anyone wearing a Burka a legitimate target?

Only two points;

It turns out that the Taliban who was engaged in talks was a fake, and
Where are all those moderate muslims, I am deafened by their condemnation of extremists.

On another tack, General Franks screwed up at Tora Bora else it all would have ended there, and going into Iraq was a criminal (and unecessary) act.

The next one who cames after us will get his head blown off.

[d-ray657]

Originally Posted by Combwork

No problem Merrylander, that was indeed four too many but lets turn this around. Because some Muslims are extremists, should all Muslims be condemned? What the terrorists do is way beyond anything in the Koran, although like the Bible bits of it are ambiguous enough to be twisted to suit their needs.

How would the USA react if in order to avenge dead civilians, schoolchildren, hospital patients etc. Islamic extremists managed to destroy an American city or two? If your family were killed by an enemy who then said "hey, shit happens in war; collateral damage" how would you or your descendants react?

The IRA were murderers who tortured then killed anyone who were against them but eventually, like them or loath them (I loath them) we HAD to sit and talk. Keeping it to a military level, it took thousands of deaths plus two A bombs to beat the Japanese into submission. Would you personally go that far to try to destroy Islamic radicals or eventually, maybe through gritted teeth, sit down and talk? If the latter, would it not be better to do it now rather than later; to work with moderate Muslims to try to isolate extremists, or is anyone wearing a Burka a legitimate target?

Excellent post sir. The power of radical Islam in the ME is most dangerous because it arises from the mixture of religion and government, not the nature of the religion itself. No religion should be judged by the action of it's most radical proponents, nor should any other group of humans. The only persons I really have a problem are corporations.

I don't doubt that bombs and invading forces increases the appeal of the radical ideas.

Regards,

D-Ray

[finnbow]

On the subject of WikiLeaks, here's a fictional yet insightful account by Tom Friedman of what a leaked Chinese diplomatic cable from their embassy in Washington back to Beijing might look like:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/01/op...e&ref=homepage

Sad, but true.

[Charles]

Originally Posted by d-ray657

Excellent post sir. The power of radical Islam in the ME is most dangerous because it arises from the mixture of religion and government, not the nature of the religion itself. No religion should be judged by the action of it's most radical proponents, nor should any other group of humans. The only persons I really have a problem are corporations.

I don't doubt that bombs and invading forces increases the appeal of the radical ideas.

Regards,

D-Ray

You for sure do have a hardon for corporations. Do you take Corporiaga or does it just come naturally?

Chas

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by finnbow

On the subject of WikiLeaks, here's a fictional yet insightful account by Tom Friedman of what a leaked Chinese diplomatic cable from their embassy in Washington back to Beijing might look like:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/01/op...e&ref=homepage

Sad, but true.

True dat, what exactly happens here when you reach voting age, do they give everyone a frontal lobotomy?

[piece-itpete]

Only if you're a Dem!

Pete

[d-ray657]

Originally Posted by Charles

You for sure do have a hardon for corporations. Do you take Corporiaga or does it just come naturally?

Chas

My mention in that post was half-joke and half-serious. The joke was the juxtaposition of the humans and the persons. The serious part has to do with the moral responsibility of these persons. They provide their beneficiaries with a shield from liability but they operate from a different set of values than their human counterpart. Indeed, they are treated as immune from obligations of the social contract. The only moral imperative for corporations is to make a profit. Because corporations lack the characteristics of human persons, they should not be entitled to be treated as persons under the law. That is why I have a problem with corporate persons.

Regards,

D-Ray

[Combwork]

Originally Posted by merrylander

Only two points;

It turns out that the Taliban who was engaged in talks was a fake, and
Where are all those moderate muslims, I am deafened by their condemnation of extremists.

On another tack, General Franks screwed up at Tora Bora else it all would have ended there, and going into Iraq was a criminal (and unecessary) act.

The next one who cames after us will get his head blown off.

"Where are all those moderate muslims, I am deafened by their condemnation of extremists."

Same place as moderate republicans in Northern Ireland. They outnumbered the terrorists many times over but they knew without a shadow of doubt that if they reported anything to the RUC, once they'd left it would be the IRA kicking their door in and blowing off their kneecaps.

[finnbow]

"Where are all those moderate muslims, I am deafened by their condemnation of extremists."

Same place as moderate republicans in Northern Ireland.

Same goes for moderate Republicans here, BTW.

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by Combwork

"Where are all those moderate muslims, I am deafened by their condemnation of extremists."

Same place as moderate republicans in Northern Ireland. They outnumbered the terrorists many times over but they knew without a shadow of doubt that if they reported anything to the RUC, once they'd left it would be the IRA kicking their door in and blowing off their kneecaps.

Well they all convinced this peace loving old guy to get armed.