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11-30-2009, 10:30 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Sonoma County, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doucanoe
The abuses in our MN Care program would make even your most liberal minded bleeding hearts snarl with anger. I am probably wrong about that but would like to think it would be the case. If people really knew about the abuses and the wasted hundreds of millions annually, their would be blood in the streets.
I don't need supporting documentation for that statement. My wife lives in the heart of the beast as lead nurse (RN) for a very large clinic/hospital.
She used to be very liberal in her politics, but the reality of it all has changed her opinions a tad. The truth of reality trumps blind ideology I guess.
RC
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What can I say? Republican greed and corruption.
It's all back to St. Ronnie and the "nine most terrifying words in the English language": "We're from the government and we're here to help." When you have such a cynical view of government it's easy to permit yourself to pillage it for personal gain, from Halliburton to Abramov to "Duke" Cunningham the story's the same.
John
PS: Reality reinforces my "bleeding heart liberalism" every day.
__________________
Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast.
Last edited by Boreas; 11-30-2009 at 10:32 PM.
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12-01-2009, 06:35 AM
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Abby Normal
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Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 11,245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doucanoe
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The abuses in our MN Care program would make even your most liberal minded bleeding hearts snarl with anger.
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I would tend to agree. I know how furious I am when I see the abuses in the banking and insurance industry for example.
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I am probably wrong about that but would like to think it would be the case.
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I don't need supporting documentation for that statement. My wife lives in the heart of the beast as lead nurse (RN) for a very large clinic/hospital.
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I have little trouble believing this even if it is undocumented.
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She used to be very liberal in her politics, but the reality of it all has changed her opinions a tad.
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This part I don't understand at all. Why would mismanagement or abuse of one system change a persons personal values. (which is essentially what politics is)
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The truth of reality trumps blind ideology I guess.
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Again I don't understand the conversion in this case.
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12-01-2009, 06:57 AM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 10,348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doucanoe
The abuses in our MN Care program would make even your most liberal minded bleeding hearts snarl with anger. I am probably wrong about that but would like to think it would be the case. If people really knew about the abuses and the wasted hundreds of millions annually, their would be blood in the streets.
I don't need supporting documentation for that statement. My wife lives in the heart of the beast as lead nurse (RN) for a very large clinic/hospital.
She used to be very liberal in her politics, but the reality of it all has changed her opinions a tad. The truth of reality trumps blind ideology I guess.
RC
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Is everyone's wife an RN?
If I had any sense, I'd go back to school and become one myself. And I guarantee you, the sight of me walking the corridor with a rectal thermometer would be enough to convince most people that they were healthy enough to become lumberjacks!!!!
Chas
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12-01-2009, 07:44 AM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 462
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"This part I don't understand at all. Why would mismanagement or abuse of one system change a persons personal values. (which is essentially what politics is)"
"Again I don't understand the conversion in this case."
I know the both of you don't get it, I know you don't.
The required explanation would take to long and I fear it would fall on deaf ears anyway. I lack the patience for it.
I guess it just illustrates the vast differences in our thinking and how we process information.
RC
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12-01-2009, 07:56 AM
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Resident octogenarian
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 20,860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doucanoe
You could always move to the Western European Socialist country of your choosing and pay @29% in national income tax and an additional VAT of 20%. That is of course after you pay property taxes where they apply and then put gas in your Hybrid at $5-6 per gallon equivalent.
Or... Just hang around for a spell. Pelosi is working on that as we speak. Your wish is just a few bills away.
RC
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And where you don't need to pay $10,000 per year for health insurance. Where public transportation is so pervasive the hybrid will spend most of its life in the garage. When I once asked the governor why we could not do property taxes like the Germans do I was informed that would be counter to the State Constitution. There the tax is governed by the load you place on the infrastructure not the value of your land - over which you have no control.
__________________
Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people.
Eleanor Roosevelt
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12-01-2009, 08:02 AM
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Resident octogenarian
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 20,860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boreas
I hadn't heard that. In any event, I'd want to hear it from multiple independent sources. The industry has been spreading false doom and gloom scenarios about other country's health care programs ever since this whole thing started. There's a lot of deliberate misinformation out there.
John
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Grassley and Hatch flat out lied about the Canadian system, not deliberate mis-information, they both lied and they know they were lying, and Hatch is a Bishop? Some Bishop.
__________________
Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people.
Eleanor Roosevelt
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12-01-2009, 08:14 AM
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Resident octogenarian
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 20,860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doucanoe
The abuses in our MN Care program would make even your most liberal minded bleeding hearts snarl with anger. I am probably wrong about that but would like to think it would be the case. If people really knew about the abuses and the wasted hundreds of millions annually, their would be blood in the streets.
I don't need supporting documentation for that statement. My wife lives in the heart of the beast as lead nurse (RN) for a very large clinic/hospital.
She used to be very liberal in her politics, but the reality of it all has changed her opinions a tad. The truth of reality trumps blind ideology I guess.
RC
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So if people are abusing the system they are doing it with the collaboration of doctors and hospitals, it takes two to tango.
When the Conservative party instituted Single Payer in Canada things were in a pretty bad state. Hospitals were hiring nurses from third world countries because they did not want to pay decent salaries. I saw some of this first hand when my Dad died. Things changed for the better afterward, sure some people might go to the doctor with imaginary ailments, hypochondriacs will ever be with us - big deal.
Back around WW II times people whose taxes had built the schools and roads could find themselves at retirement with scarce enough to live on. They could get a pension from the government but the means test said you can't own your own home (typical right wing stupidity take away the home and give them a pension that just covers the rent). Many parents deeded the home over to their children and got the pension. Then in the need for money the children sold the house out from under them. Oh ye generation of vipers.
Finally wiser heads prevailed and the means test was eliminated, replace by income tax well above the value of the pension. Even now if all a person has is the basic pension, a supplement of $635 per month is available.
Oh yes, despite some of the other blatant lies you were told by our estimable senators, Canada has negligable debt.
__________________
Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people.
Eleanor Roosevelt
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12-01-2009, 08:25 AM
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Resident octogenarian
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 20,860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boreas
What can I say? Republican greed and corruption.
It's all back to St. Ronnie and the "nine most terrifying words in the English language": "We're from the government and we're here to help." When you have such a cynical view of government it's easy to permit yourself to pillage it for personal gain, from Halliburton to Abramov to "Duke" Cunningham the story's the same.
John
PS: Reality reinforces my "bleeding heart liberalism" every day.
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Given our insane system the miracle is that government even works at all. Show me any other country that requires an incoming preident to make in excess of 8000 appointments (in the face of a recalcitrant Congress) and it is probably some corrupt dictatorship.
So there is John Q Civilservant trying to do his job and they change management - and direction - every four or eight years.
Then take that collection of imbeciles known as the Senate. One lone senator, old doc Coburn (who once said he was Senator Ensign's OB-Gyn - say what?) can hold up a bill designed to assist veterans from even being debated. One lone barking idiot in a nation of over 300 million people can block legislation from even being discussed, and you call this democracy?
Feh!
__________________
Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people.
Eleanor Roosevelt
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12-01-2009, 09:17 AM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Sonoma County, CA
Posts: 20,496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merrylander
One lone senator, old doc Coburn (who once said he was Senator Ensign's OB-Gyn - say what?)
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Yeah, you know, he takes care of Ensign's property.
John
__________________
Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast.
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12-01-2009, 09:30 AM
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Resident octogenarian
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 20,860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boreas
Yeah, you know, he takes care of Ensign's property.
John
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I knew Ensign was a wussie, I guess just change one letter.
__________________
Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people.
Eleanor Roosevelt
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