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10-13-2017, 09:19 AM
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Jigsawed
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Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 10,580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nailer
I highly recommend Thomas E. Ricks' Churchill and Orwell: The Fight for Freedom.
It's closing paragraph: The struggle to see things as they are is perhaps the fundamental driver of Western civilization. There is a long but direct line from Aristotle and Archimedes to Locke, Hume, Mill, and Darwin, and from there through Orwell and Churchill to the “Letter from Birmingham City Jail.” It is the agreement that objective reality exists, that people of goodwill can perceive it, and that other people will change views when presented with the facts of the matter.
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I have not read the book. I have a problem with Churchill. I would regard him as essentially anti-German and not pro Freedom.
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10-13-2017, 09:22 AM
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Reformed Know-Nothing
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: MoCo, MD
Posts: 25,919
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dondilion
I have not read the book. I have a problem with Churchill. I would regard him as essentially anti-German and not pro Freedom.
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For a British leader in WWII, being anti-German was pro-freedom.
__________________
As long as the roots are not severed, all will be well in the garden.
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10-13-2017, 09:30 AM
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Jigsawed
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Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 10,580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finnbow
For a British leader in WWII, being anti-German was pro-freedom.
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And regarding India?
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10-13-2017, 10:28 AM
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Rational Anarchist
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Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: DFW
Posts: 7,315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dondilion
And regarding India?
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Nobody's perfect. Putin? 
__________________
"We have met the enemy and he is us."
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10-13-2017, 10:40 AM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Sierras
Posts: 14,213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dondilion
And regarding India?
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That's called hypocrisy.
__________________
White Christian Nationalism:
Freedom for us, order for everyone else, and violence for those who transgress.
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10-13-2017, 10:11 AM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: San Diego via Vermilion Ohio and Points Between
Posts: 11,538
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dondilion
I have not read the book. I have a problem with Churchill. I would regard him as essentially anti-German and not pro Freedom.
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I think most normal people think that was a good thing during the 1930s and 1940s. Churchill's chief accomplishment was warning everyone in Europe in the 1930s that Germany was rearming and Hitler was evil. That is why he was selected to be premier on a nationalist ticket (Labor and Tory coalition)
after the war started.
You should probably read William Manchester's three-volume biography (he was ill and another author finished the last volume) of Churchill. The Last Lion is the general title.
__________________
Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.
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10-13-2017, 10:58 AM
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Jigsawed
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Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 10,580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icenine
I think most normal people think that was a good thing during the 1930s and 1940s. Churchill's chief accomplishment was warning everyone in Europe in the 1930s that Germany was rearming and Hitler was evil. That is why he was selected to be premier on a nationalist ticket (Labor and Tory coalition)
after the war started.
You should probably read William Manchester's three-volume biography (he was ill and another author finished the last volume) of Churchill. The Last Lion is the general title.
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Churchill's life long resistance to India's quest for freedom from the British crown is well known. His resistance was also colored with racism.
His warnings about Hitler/Germany were probably driven by his efforts to make up for his signal failure in WW1.
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10-13-2017, 01:55 PM
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Rational Anarchist
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Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: DFW
Posts: 7,315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icenine
I think most normal people think that was a good thing during the 1930s and 1940s. Churchill's chief accomplishment was warning everyone in Europe in the 1930s that Germany was rearming and Hitler was evil. That is why he was selected to be premier on a nationalist ticket (Labor and Tory coalition)
after the war started.
You should probably read William Manchester's three-volume biography (he was ill and another author finished the last volume) of Churchill. The Last Lion is the general title.
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Churchill's warnings weren't heeded by anyone who counted, including the majority of the British and French people who had no interest in another war with Germany. If he had been successful, Hitler would've been finished well before September 1939.
What did you think of Manchester's biography?
__________________
"We have met the enemy and he is us."
Last edited by nailer; 10-13-2017 at 02:51 PM.
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10-13-2017, 10:26 AM
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Rational Anarchist
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Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: DFW
Posts: 7,315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dondilion
I have not read the book. I have a problem with Churchill. I would regard him as essentially anti-German and not pro Freedom.
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Churchill was anti Hitler. He was definitely not anti German. Many British aristocrats were of German descent.
__________________
"We have met the enemy and he is us."
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10-13-2017, 11:06 AM
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Jigsawed
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Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 10,580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nailer
Churchill was anti Hitler. He was definitely not anti German. Many British aristocrats were of German descent.
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Anti German hegemony. This attitude was derived from his WW1 experience.
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