Point/Counterpoint

[piece-itpete]

Originally Posted by Fast_Eddie

Is there a more efficent way to get a letter across the country in the private sector than the postal service?

Why won't the Feds let UPS try?

Pete

[painter]

Originally Posted by Fast_Eddie

Show me the bill that proposes a government run health care system that you would have to use. While, personally, I'm all for a single payer system that seems to work so well for so many other countries, I see no legislation proposed that would give us that.

So be against single payer if you like. But please consider supporting legislation that would prevent insurance companies dropping people if they get sick, prevent insurance companies from denying coverage for "pre-existing conditions" and allows people to keep their insurance if they lose their jobs. You know, since it has nothing to do with the concerns you are expressing.

I agree. Not all issues here have addressed other concerns to a government system. Lets take the Catholic Hospitals and physicians for instance. A government plan...unless written to exclude those same doctors and hospitals from performing abortions OR what they deem against their religious beliefs....might fail. Many of these hospitals have excellent specialists. And the spiritual care needed. Just a thought...

MOUSE PROBLEM>>>INSERTED POST TWICE>

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by painter

the spiritual care needed

yeah that

[Fast_Eddie]

I am Catholic. I was born at a Catholic hospital.

Again, since no one is suggesting a universial, single payer system there is nothing to worry about. If this legislation passes, I'll have the same isurance I have now. I will have the same doctor and make the same decisions I can make now. If your current plan covers a witch doctor doing accupuncture while sacraficing a chicken to the Gods of Noram that's great. Party on. This won't change that.

[Fast_Eddie]

Originally Posted by painter

I'm speaking about the principals behind the religious decisions that make up the Catholic Faith. Abortions...end of life decisions...etc

http://insidecatholic.com/Joomla/ind...6803&Itemid=48

I understand what you're saying. Look at that article and see how often it talks about "government-run" health care.

I'll say again: Show me the bill that forces you to use any government run health care program. I must have said this 20 times on this forum. No one has produced the bill. Becuase it does not exist. Of all the proposals being disucssed, there is not one single payer plan. Government will not as this article says "hold the purse strings". No doctor will be forced to perform abortions.

This is just misinformation and scare tactics attempting to use "wedge" issues to keep us from changing anything. Abortions and death panels. This has been debunked so many times I don't know how they can keep bringing it up. Look how they use the classic construction in this article "Everyone agrees we need to do somethng, BUT" and then they go on to make a case for doing nothing.

1. We all agree we need to do something BUT...
2. Here's why everything they want to do is wrong.
3. We have no alternative.
4. So do nothing.
5. (unstated) we don't really agree we need to do something. That was us being misleading.

[Sandy G]

I don't understand insurance at all. Under my former employer's plan, Blue Cross/Blue Shield of Tennessee, would NOT, no how, no way, pay for Bariatric Surgery.Huh-uhh. Won't do it, can't make us. Fine. Go to hell, you bastards. Yet under my WIFE's FEDERAL Blue Cross/Blue Shield, it was covered, no questions asked, right this way, Mr. Geiger... And the screwy-ass formulas they use to calculate what they WILL pay on all of it- 80% of the last 90% after your deductible had been met, but only if you qualify under Subpart (c) of the Tennessee Gifts to Minors Act of 1955...Or some similar blathering nonsense.

[merrylander]

Plus it was totally mis-informed about the Canadian plan.

[painter]

Originally Posted by Fast_Eddie

I understand what you're saying. Look at that article and see how often it talks about "government-run" health care.

I'll say again: Show me the bill that forces you to use any government run health care program. I must have said this 20 times on this forum. No one has produced the bill. Becuase it does not exist. Of all the proposals being disucssed, there is not one single payer plan. Government will not as this article says "hold the purse strings". No doctor will be forced to perform abortions.

This is just misinformation and scare tactics attempting to use "wedge" issues to keep us from changing anything. Abortions and death panels. This has been debunked so many times I don't know how they can keep bringing it up. Look how they use the classic construction in this article "Everyone agrees we need to do somethng, BUT" and then they go on to make a case for doing nothing.

1. We all agree we need to do something BUT...
2. Here's why everything they want to do is wrong.
3. We have no alternative.
4. So do nothing.
5. (unstated) we don't really agree we need to do something. That was us being misleading.

I had just given you our health issues...but backed off. Our problems are our own and we take care of them on our own.
So now...lets go from there. Say anything you want...you will not satisfy everyone...impossible, but I think you are fair enough Eddie and respectful enough to accept others opinions. Had our government been able to foster a working relationship...this would have been a done deal. I guess I'm health care bummed out (grandson speak) so I'll just sit back and hope and pray for the best. Just remember...you and others here are the NEXT old!

There are some House Democrats concerned about abortion.....


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...0102589_2.html

[Fast_Eddie]

Tell me what you're thinking. Taking care of the "old" both current and to come is much of why I think we need to address health care. We're paying too much for too little and part of the "cure" for medicare is lowering costs.

I'm not arguing with you here. If I'm missing something, please, educate me. What I don't want to be influenced by, however, is misinformation or insurance industry propoganda.

It really is this simple- virtually every western nation has universal health care, and despite the commercials the insurance industry is running, peolpe in those countries are well cared for. We're fortunate to have members here who have lived with those systems and I believe them when they say it works well.

[Twodogs]

I don't really understand how to protest something that I can't reach out and touch. If we ever get a readable bill posted somewhere, I'm sure I'll have an opinion on it. Public opinion is probably why we won't ever see one until it's voted on. I think more people are protesting the secrecy and rushing. It all stinks on ice if you haven't swallowed the Kool Aid.