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  #11  
Old 05-04-2016, 10:48 AM
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Pio1980 Pio1980 is offline
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The non disposable byproducts have always been a major problem with "the power too cheap to meter".
No doubt Hyman Rickover expected a level of competence as high as his own from the civilian side, unintended consequences notwithstanding.

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Last edited by Pio1980; 05-04-2016 at 10:51 AM.
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  #12  
Old 05-04-2016, 10:57 AM
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finnbow finnbow is offline
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Yes, there's vitrification but the vitrified waste is still hot and the process results in an increased volume of waste, making storage even more problematic. And the risks associated with nuclear waste, however it was generated are both extreme and seemingly insoluble.
Vitrification at Hanford and grout stabilization at Savannah River are effectively both prototype efforts to stabilize mostly uncharacterized mixed (with process chemicals) liquid nuclear waste. Its treatment and storage really isn't comparable to (solid) fuel cycle waste. Grout stabilization and vitrification are both performed to convert the liquid waste to solid waste to preclude seepage into ground water, a process unnecessary for (solid) fuel cycle waste.

That said, Harry Reid's efforts to close Yucca Mountain have certainly set back our ability to safely store spent fuel. Because we have chosen not to reprocess spent fuel (as done in numerous other countries, including France) due to non-proliferation concerns, we are stuck with needing a large nuclear waste repository (which the civilian nuclear industry has already payed for, BTW). Now that Yucca Mountain is on mothballs, so to speak, we are stuck storing spent fuel onsite at nuclear plants across the nation, not an ideal long term solution, to be sure, not to mention a screw-job for the civilian nuclear industry.
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Last edited by finnbow; 05-04-2016 at 10:59 AM.
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  #13  
Old 05-04-2016, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by finnbow View Post
Vitrification at Hanford and grout stabilization at Savannah River are effectively both prototype efforts to stabilize mostly uncharacterized mixed (with process chemicals) liquid nuclear waste. Its treatment and storage really isn't comparable to (solid) fuel cycle waste. Grout stabilization and vitrification are both performed to convert the liquid waste to solid waste to preclude seepage into ground water, a process unnecessary for (solid) fuel cycle waste.

That said, Harry Reid's efforts to close Yucca Mountain have certainly set back our ability to safely store spent fuel. Because we have chosen not to reprocess spent fuel (as done in numerous other countries, including France) due to non-proliferation concerns, we are stuck with needing a large nuclear waste repository (which the civilian nuclear industry has already payed for, BTW). Now that Yucca Mountain is on mothballs, so to speak, we are stuck storing spent fuel onsite at nuclear plants across the nation, not an ideal long term solution, to be sure, not to mention a screw-job for the civilian nuclear industry.
I know what vitrification is and I have a hard time mustering up any sympathy for the civilian nuclear industry.

One way or the other we're "stuck" with every atom of nuclear waste ever generated.
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  #14  
Old 05-04-2016, 11:14 AM
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I know what vitrification is and I have a hard time mustering up any sympathy for the civilian nuclear industry.

One way or the other we're "stuck" with every atom of nuclear waste ever generated.
On that we agree. We can't just wish it away. That said, most people on earth get the preponderance of their lifetime radiation dose from cosmic radiation, radon and medical imagery and not from nuclear power.
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Last edited by finnbow; 05-04-2016 at 11:21 AM.
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  #15  
Old 05-04-2016, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by finnbow View Post
Vitrification at Hanford and grout stabilization at Savannah River are effectively both prototype efforts to stabilize mostly uncharacterized mixed (with process chemicals) liquid nuclear waste. Its treatment and storage really isn't comparable to (solid) fuel cycle waste. Grout stabilization and vitrification are both performed to convert the liquid waste to solid waste to preclude seepage into ground water, a process unnecessary for (solid) fuel cycle waste.

That said, Harry Reid's efforts to close Yucca Mountain have certainly set back our ability to safely store spent fuel. Because we have chosen not to reprocess spent fuel (as done in numerous other countries, including France) due to non-proliferation concerns, we are stuck with needing a large nuclear waste repository (which the civilian nuclear industry has already payed for, BTW). Now that Yucca Mountain is on mothballs, so to speak, we are stuck storing spent fuel onsite at nuclear plants across the nation, not an ideal long term solution, to be sure, not to mention a screw-job for the civilian nuclear industry.
So its extreme waste problems make it very undesirable: Aiding and abetting
the OP statement.
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  #16  
Old 05-04-2016, 01:31 PM
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The French seem to have a good handle on it - nuclear energy provides 75% of their electric power; they export around 3 billion Euros worth a year. They have constant gov. and scientific collaboration actively accelerating the recycling/reusability/waste storage processes.
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  #17  
Old 05-04-2016, 01:36 PM
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The French seem to have a good handle on it - nuclear energy provides 75% of their electric power; they export around 3 billion Euros worth a year. They have constant gov. and scientific collaboration actively accelerating the recycling/reusability/waste storage processes.
From the OP.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/08/bu...rgy-areva.html
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  #18  
Old 05-04-2016, 01:45 PM
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The French seem to have a good handle on it - nuclear energy provides 75% of their electric power; they export around 3 billion Euros worth a year. They have constant gov. and scientific collaboration actively accelerating the recycling/reusability/waste storage processes.
Nuclear is in the group...If it can go wrong , it will. However its wrong is mega.
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  #19  
Old 05-04-2016, 01:49 PM
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So its extreme waste problems make it very undesirable: Aiding and abetting
the OP statement.
The problems in the Defense nuclear complex (e.g., Hanford, Savannah River, Oak Ridge) are legacy problems from a different time, not unlike Superfund projects where American industry worked with little concern or regulation when it came to the environment. We are now able to recognize the mess this created.
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  #20  
Old 05-04-2016, 01:52 PM
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Nuclear is in the group...If it can go wrong , it will. However its wrong is mega.
Perhaps so, but far more have been killed over the years due to the use of coal from mining accidents and respiratory disease. The environmental impact of coal hasn't been exactly benign either from mountain-top removal to rivers polluted from mine drainage to acid rain killing lakes hundreds of miles from power plants to dirty air. Unfortunately, there is no free lunch.
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