Today's GOP

[finnbow]

I was wondering what the conservatives on this board think of today's GOP (and its prominent politicians). I find my political leanings to correspond frequently to what once was the moderate wing of the GOP, but this faction of the party has disappeared or has been marginalized/disparaged as RINO's by the ever more reactionary GOP of today.

Do any of you conservatives here actually prefer today's GOP to the more moderate one of days past? If so, why?

[BlueStreak]

I think I'll go get a beer and just lurk for a while.

[Rex E.]

I'm with you for the most part Fin. I registered as an R when I turned 18. I've been an I since about the age of 20 iirc.

I'm no fan of the new bunch of not so conservative conservatives in the GOP and their hard line approach. I'd be far more pleased with them if they took a real fiscal conservative stand and worked on that instead of worrying about what Jim is smoking or what he's doing in his bed with Ron or Jane or Ron & Jane, or.........

Love or hate Reagan he a a very real opponent in Tip O'Neil and they learned to work together. Wonder why the same cannot be done today?

[merrylander]

As a real conservative I would not touch that lot with a stick.

[ebacon]

I think a lot of it goes back to religion. During the Reagan era religion still had an influence over American culture. Notions of right, wrong, teamwork, etc. were stronger.

As the war on religion progressed those notions were replaced with others. On the Christian front we saw a growth of, I don't know what to call it, maybe wealth evangelism. The story told in that camp is that if you do good then God will reward you with wealth. While that may be true even under classical Christianity the classical is hard to pervert. With wealth evangelism a parishioner can easily rationalize that if he makes more money by whatever means then it is God's will. That makes it easy for them to hold the Bible in one hand and the atheist Atlas Shrugged in the other and not feel any guilt or mixed feelings.

On another front we have citizens that have never been exposed to the church or to philosophy in general. Those people then attended college and became indoctrinated with the pseudo-philosophy of Ayn Rand and were taught that dog-eat-dog is good and religion is evil. Those lessons can really play hell with a society.

In any event both of those mechanisms play hell with our form of self government. For our government to work it requires the most of us in a moral sense. On the other hand if we treat our government as a tool to serve our self interests then it quickly becomes an ever changing gibberish of legislation. That is what we are seeing today. Everyone is changing the rules to suit their self interest. The corporate leaders see it as freedom. Sure they whine to the voters but that is only to make useful idiots out of them so that they vote to give the corporations even more slack in the rope.

The situation is a real mess. I firmly believe that Ayn Rand was a Soviet spy and we are dealing with the consequences of her societal engineering.

Rooting out whatever ails us is going to be a bitch.

http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/...oncern-America

** Note: My discussion of Christianity should not be construed as a belief that Christianity is superior. I firmly believe that the unadulterated teachings of every religion, Hindu, Jewish, Sikh, Muslim, whatever, provide just as sound of a moral basis as Christianity. Every religion has their kooks and that minority should not be taken as an example of the whole.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by ebacon

As the war on religion progressed those notions were replaced with others.

I'm curious about the war on religion. Heard of it but never seen it. Can you describe it and relate any manifestations of it.

On the Christian front we saw a growth of, I don't know what to call it, maybe wealth evangelism. The story told in that camp is that if you do good then God will reward you with wealth.

It's usually referred to as Calvinism.

John

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by Boreas

I'm curious about the war on religion. Heard of it but never seen it. Can you describe it and relate any manifestations of it.



It's usually referred to as Calvinism.

John

Thank you, John. I'm thinking this is like the "War on Christmas". Anytime some atheist complains about his neighbors manger scenes, or some retail chain decides to not have Santa Clause in the mall, it's;

"OMG, THE MONGOL HORDES ARE COMING TO CONFISCATE OUR BIBLES AND FORCE US TO WORSHIP GOATS!!! QUICK VOTE REPUBLICAN AND SAVE AMERICA!!!!".........

That manipulative BS I've seen far too much of.

Dave

[ebacon]

Originally Posted by Boreas

I'm curious about the war on religion. Heard of it but never seen it. Can you describe it and relate any manifestations of it.



It's usually referred to as Calvinism.

John

I looked up Calvinism on Wiki. That looks like different stuff than what I am referring to with regard to wealth evangilism. By wealth evangilism I mean preachers with a drumbeat that says if you follow the way then wealth will come to you. Olstein comes to mind, as does Meyer. There are probably a few more players on the airwaves that I'm not familiar with. I'm not saying these are bad people. I'm just saying that their message is a departure from what I would consider to be the classical teaching of if you live the way then you will be saved. Monetary wealth didn't play a part in the original.

I'm just talking out loud as if we were around a table. I'm no expert on this stuff.

In any event, I don't know if war on religion is a common term. It's just one I used to desccribe what I think I'm seeing.

My perspective of religion is a little more contrasted than most Americans so maybe my recent American religion history is skewed. I grew up for the most part in Bavaria. In that region of the world the church plays a big part in daily life. The churches are at the center of towns. They are solid stone, half a millenia old, covered inside with gold, and saints are entombed in the floors. Believe in religion or not there is at least an aura that some deep thinking happens there. The church also provides the cadence of life with bell tolls on the hour. The church has a peaceful presence even if not everyone follows it or tithes.

When I got a whiff of quote-unquote American style religion on TV I was shocked. There were people getting healed, preachers wearing Rolexes, Tammy Faye Baker. Gott damn it was crazy. Christianity had been turned into a carnival freak show. Even though I was not a member of any relgion I still felt like the native indian that cried when I saw the garbage marketed to Christians on TV.

I can see how the Atheist movement gets a skewed picture of religion and seems to have grown in numbers and conviction.

The good news is that what I saw on TV could be contrasted against the more staid Christian practices of neighbors with european roots. The older Germans, Italians, Poles, and the like of Detroit still carried the humility and tranquility of the homeland churches. I suspect they also brought those qualities to politics. While politics may have been just as challenging at least they got it done.

Since that time the Atheists seem to have gotten a stonger foothold and battled the churches. Similarly more people seem to be agnostic. Those effects might well be caused the Circus churches of the 1980s. For sure the was a war against religion during the 2008 election. That's when Glenn Beck urged Christians to leave their church if it had social tendencies. Rush Limbaugh probably did the same as well as a host of people on Fox news and conservative talk radio. Of course those people were also urged to turn to Ayn Rand with her atheist objectivism and self-dealing. Humility and teamwork were repainted as weakness and statism.

So that's the way I see the difference between Reagan era or old Republicans and the new class of Republicans. While their party name is the same their ability to work with the other side and the directions of their internal compasses are notably different.

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by ebacon

I think a lot of it goes back to religion. During the Reagan era religion still had an influence over American culture. Notions of right, wrong, teamwork, etc. were stronger.

Funny, I don't recall this being the case. If anything, labor relations were far more combative.

Dave

[ebacon]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

Funny, I don't recall this being the case. If anything, labor relations were far more combative.

Dave

Labor relations is a different topic. This thread is about what conservatives think about the modern GOP.

That's not to say that I don't have an opinion on labor relations then and now, it's just that this isn't the thread.