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  #61  
Old 03-20-2014, 08:19 AM
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finnbow finnbow is offline
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Originally Posted by HarmanKardon View Post
I hate generalizations. They are not ignorant, they are insane. The French are this and that, the Germans are this and that - but the USA (according to the stubborn Americans) are the greatest beyond reproach.
Like it or not, generalizations are the only way to talk about huge groups of people (such as a nation's population). Generally speaking, Germans differ from Italians, Americans differ from Japanese, and Norwegians differ from Nigerians.

FWIW, many residents of First World countries believe their own countries to be superior to other nations. I can't remember how many times that Germans (mostly rural Germans near Fulda) would ask if me if I didn't agree that Germany was the best country in the world. I think this trait is more common among the less-educated and less-traveled.

"Patriotism is, fundamentally, a conviction that a particular country is the best in the world because you were born in it."

- George Bernard Shaw
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  #62  
Old 03-20-2014, 08:24 AM
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HarmanKardon HarmanKardon is offline
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People are different, nations are different, cultures are different - and that is great. DIFFERENT, NOT BETTER OR WORSE. We have to tell that also low educated people, or we should at least try to do so.

One of the basic facts of the philosophy of taosim is that actually at last everything is One without discrimination.
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Last edited by HarmanKardon; 03-20-2014 at 08:26 AM.
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  #63  
Old 03-20-2014, 08:30 AM
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Boreas Boreas is offline
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Originally Posted by HarmanKardon View Post
I hate generalizations. They are not ignorant, they are insane. The French are this and that, the Germans are this and that - but the USA (according to the stubborn Americans) are the greatest beyond reproach.

Once upon a time a young fifteen years old boy went into a record store and noticed a record which seemed to be interesting. The cover presented a man who looked like a "crazy scientist". He wanted to buy the record but it was too expensive. After some negociations with the seller ("I will probably never sell this strange thing") the boy got it for some three dollars. It was his very first record: Edgard , Complete Works Vol.1, EMS 401. He went home and wanted to listen to it instantly in the living room. But Mom was ironing there so he had to move into another room with the record player to listen to the record. "I can tell you folks - I almost peed my pants!" he told later in an interview. This man was Frank Zappa.

Everybody who is familar with the IMHO greatest artist of the 20th century knows what an immense impact this music had on his own musical future. I am grateful that this French composer Edgard Varese triggered once what became later the genius Frank Zappa. France meet USA at it's best.

Picture shows Madame Varèse together with Frank.
Ah, you must also be a fan of Ensemble Modern! Me too, and "Yellow Shark", perhaps my favorite album of FZ's music.

Also, don't forget Pierre Boulez, another French composer with "Zappa connections".

John
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  #64  
Old 03-20-2014, 08:30 AM
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finnbow finnbow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarmanKardon View Post
People are different, nations are different, cultures are different - and that is great. DIFFERENT, NOT BETTER OR WORSE.

One of the basic facts of the philosophy of taosim is that actually at last everything is One without discrimination.
While I'll agree with this sentiment, many people are fearful/suspicious/uncomfortable (pick your word) around people different than they are. FWIW, this is generally more true in Europe than in the US. For example, Muslims have assimilated far better in the US than they have in any European country.
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  #65  
Old 03-20-2014, 08:33 AM
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HK, are you saying we're NOT the greatest beyond reproach?

Pete
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  #66  
Old 03-20-2014, 08:42 AM
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Dondilion Dondilion is offline
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The French got unfairly tagged "surrender artists" largely because of WW11.

The fact is that they fought bravely in WW1 and really bore the brunt of the
fighting.

In WWII they were let down by short sighted leaders who invested heavily into fixed defense (Maginot Line) while the Germans had move on to mobile tactics.

The Frenchies didn't have a chance.
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  #67  
Old 03-20-2014, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Dondilion View Post
The French got unfairly tagged "surrender artists" largely because of WW11.

The fact is that they fought bravely in WW1 and really bore the brunt of the
fighting.

In WWII they were let down by short sighted leaders who invested heavily into fixed defense (Maginot Line) while the Germans had move on to mobile tactics.

The Frenchies didn't have a chance.
A truly impressive anachronism. The German army never even confronted the Maginot Line. They basically went around it, through the Low Countries.

Elements of it survive, dotting the French landscape along the Eastern Frontier.

John
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  #68  
Old 03-20-2014, 08:57 AM
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Dondilion Dondilion is offline
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FWIW, this is generally more true in Europe than in the US. For example, Muslims have assimilated far better in the US than they have in any European country.
This is an observation I have been making to myself recently.

Despite 9/11 we have been very tolerant of Muslim in this big city. Apart from
the random lout the interaction between average citizens and Muslims has been extremely good.

Surprisingly they and orthodox Jews have many common neighborhoods. I guess they find commonality in their conservative outlook on life.
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  #69  
Old 03-20-2014, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by piece-itpete View Post
HK, are you saying we're NOT the greatest beyond reproach?

Pete
The Germans are the greatest, but I have no problem to confess that the Americans are the greatestest.

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  #70  
Old 03-20-2014, 09:40 AM
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HarmanKardon HarmanKardon is offline
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Ah, you must also be a fan of Ensemble Modern! Me too, and "Yellow Shark", perhaps my favorite album of FZ's music.

Also, don't forget Pierre Boulez, another French composer with "Zappa connections".

John
Of course of course!!!!!

And never forget the fruitful cooperation of Frank with "Freaky French Fiddler" Jean-Luc Ponty, who is a unique violin Jazz artist.
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