Pope John Paul's Beatification ....

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

I still vote my conscience

Flac, I do indeed drink Margaritas on drunken Mexican day.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPKEk2aHjow




Matt 20:1-16 "For the Kingdom of Heaven is like a man who was the master of a household, who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard.

When he had agreed with the laborers for a denarius a day, he sent them into his vineyard. He went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace.

To them he said, ‘You also go into the vineyard, and whatever is right I will give you.’ So they went their way. Again he went out about the sixth and the ninth hour, and did likewise. About the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle. He said to them, ‘Why do you stand here all day idle?’ "They said to him, ‘Because no one has hired us.’ "He said to them, ‘You also go into the vineyard, and you will receive whatever is right.’

When evening had come, the lord of the vineyard said to his steward, ‘Call the laborers and pay them their wages, beginning from the last to the first.’ "When those who were hired at about the eleventh hour came, they each received a denarius.

When the first came, they supposed that they would receive more; and they likewise each received a denarius. When they received it, they murmured against the master of the household, saying, ‘These last have spent one hour, and you have made them equal to us, who have borne the burden of the day and the scorching heat!’ "

But he answered one of them, ‘Friend, I am doing you no wrong. Didn’t you agree with me for a denarius? Take that which is yours, and go your way. It is my desire to give to this last just as much as to you. Isn’t it lawful for me to do what I want to with what I own? Or is your eye evil, because I am good?’ So the last will be first, and the first last. For many are called, but few are chosen."

I'm trying to fit that into a liberal worldview

Pete

Nice little story. Except in the real world it goes like this;

Pete and Dave are out looking for work. They meet two dudes who say, "The vineyard is hiring. It a great job, the guy paid us a full denarius. The work is hard, but the pay is worth it. Go check it out. Here's the address." So, Dave and Pete go down to the vineyard and talk to the guy. He says, "Okay, you're hired. You also go into the vineyard, and you will receive whatever is right.".

While Dave and Pete are out toiling in the vineyard, the master of the household goes out and makes a bunch of stupid investments that deplete a big chunk of his funds. Because he is now depressed and blaming everyone but himself for his troubles, he goes on a drinking binge, running up a tab that he cannot pay. So, he stops by the bank to borrow money, but, alas the bank will only loan the master of the house enough to pay half of his payroll. (Because they know he is an idiot.)

At the end of the day, he returns to the vineyard. Dave and Pete approach the guy to collect their well deserved pay. He hands them half a denaruis. Dave and Pete ask; "Half?, I thought the job paid a whole denarius?" The master of the household yells, "Yeah? Well that was a deal I worked out with someone else! I told YOU, 'Whatever (I feel.) is right!' And I happen to think you're a couple of lazy ass whiners who don't deserve a full denarius! So, take your half a denarius and scram!" Then mumbles to himself, "Damn vineyard workers are going to be the end of me..............".

Dave

[piece-itpete]

I know of no legit businesses that short their workers. I suppose there must be some, in criminal court somewhere, or out of business the next week.

And when are the Great and Godly Democrats going to do what they say? I get the distinct impression that they are cynical hypocrites.

I saw a show on atheists a few years ago. Two things I remember - the lady who got very mad if someone said 'Bless You' after she sneezed, and another guy who spent his free time marking out 'in God we trust' on paper money

Better revisit the monuments in DC, we'll have to chisel words off them. After we fire the Congressional Chap.

Pete

[d-ray657]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

I know of no legit businesses that short their workers. I suppose there must be some, in criminal court somewhere, or out of business the next week.

And when are the Great and Godly Democrats going to do what they say? I get the distinct impression that they are cynical hypocrites.

I saw a show on atheists a few years ago. Two things I remember - the lady who got very mad if someone said 'Bless You' after she sneezed, and another guy who spent his free time marking out 'in God we trust' on paper money

Better revisit the monuments in DC, we'll have to chisel words off them. After we fire the Congressional Chap.

Pete

I'd be interested in knowing what show it was. It seems like they have identified a couple of people with O/C disorder who happen to be atheist. It would be like saying that the Koran burning preacher and Sarah Palin are representative of Christians.

BTW, there are a lot of chaps in Congress who deserve to be fired.

Regards,

D-Ray

[piece-itpete]

Agreed D, but it didn't make it any less funny

Pete

[flacaltenn]

Disclaimer.. I have NEVER spent so much time on a "religious" thread in my life.. And in total board time -- I'm probably in the 20,000 post region or so.. So all of my bullshit as it's been called, is just natural curiousity from a person who is certifiably clear of all loyalty to either sanctioned American party.

I don't need to argue about the facts that Natural Law and the belief in a higher sanctioning power of freedom and dignity is a MAJOR element in the founding of America and the Civil Rights Movement. It's historical record and fact. That you don't appreciate WHY it was neccessary to invoke GOD in those instances --- is your loss. Perhaps we'll just wait until YOU find yourself a victim of man-made state power..

In fact, D-Ray is telling me that my last post was so peppered with libertarian spew, that he was dumbfounded about what that had to do with a belief in God. The question WAS "which political faction is a bigger threat to freedom and liberty? So of course, we need to look at whether the "threat" of the religious right or the nannifying left is more apparent in terms of personal choice and liberty.

So -- Seems like we're left with my curious question about that threat. And it's no wonder that my observations about Natural Law superceding man-made law when those laws conflict didn't register with most of you.

Because (for example), BlueStreak comes back and tells me that he EXPECTS the govt to dictate his dietary restrainsts in order to solve his extra poundage. That's whatever policy they decide to mandate is just good for me as well. And he tells me that Santa Claus in a city parade and Christmas carols in public schools is COMPLETELY verboten -- but my daughter spent a day in a public school dressed as an Arab girl reciting Koranic verses.. And SOMEHOW -- that's NOT a total Multicultural hypocrisy!! .. Now realize, I didn't mind the excersize, any more than I resented the Christmas assemblies as a kid. BUt the political left SOMEHOW views cultural ethnic celebrations MUCH differently when it comes to Christian practice. That's absurd. I'm PRO-Multicultural celebration. No ifs, ands, buts... And I don't see a threat in that free expression EVEN WHEN it occurs it occurs in Public context. That's NOT theocracy..

More absurd is the fact that BlueStreak sees NO threat in having the govt mandate toilets that don't flush, washing machines that don't clean, a TV system that pretty REQUIRES a cable or satellite hook-up, or light bulb technology that is going to be market obsolete before the incandescent ban takes effect. Since those things don't bother you and you don't equate THEM to threats to your freedom and choice, -- How about a govt that decides it can seize your property and give it to someone else simply because the NEW owner will pay the state more in income?

And then when I ask BlueStreak exactly what the political threat from the religious right is that is huger and uglier than anything I see coming from an over-reaching left-leaning govt, Dave (can I call you Dave?) tells me to "see the comments above".. I was HOPING
to learn of more imminent obvious threat so that I can raise my alert status to at least Orange or Red and join the left in defeating it. But I can't get an answer to that question.

Which leaves me with the only rational conclusion. That this pummeling of the "religious right" is just dam convienient because of the way demographics align within the Left-Right political divide. That Christians ARE subjected to a different standard when it comes to the exercise of multicultural or ethic celebration and ritual. And that the left has no sense of self-preservation when it comes to preserving their personal social and economic choice and sees increased state power as a pure blessing.

Someday -- I'm gonna go reclaim the mantle of LIBERAL politics. In fact, a good third party choice would be the "New Liberal" party of America. Where once liberal meant tolerance, personal (not group) rights, and a native DISTRUST of unchecked govt power.

But in the meantime folks -- I'll take a break from this board so that y'all can get back to bashing each other over stupid comments made by stupid politicians who are only famous because the media is too lazy and ratings conscious to raise the debate to issues and solid philosophical differences that are likely to rock your world..

[d-ray657]

I think the problem is that historically, Christianity has not been presented in schools as "part" of a multicultural learning experience, but as state sanctioned religion. There is no problem with Christianity being described as a big part of the cultural diversity that exists in America. Moreover, it is perfectly acceptable to teach the Bible as literature. I would expect the involvement of the African American churches in the Civil Rights movement to be reported as part of that history. And nothing prevents a student from stating his or her faith in the context of a discussion of social issues. I wouldn't expect a student to get a very good grade in a science class by reporting that evolution didn't occur because the Bible says so.

Regards,

D-Ray

[piece-itpete]

I take a small issue with state sanctioned, as it was simply the nations religion reflected by the government.

But yeah, I understand ya

Flac, hang around. Not many argue against the benevolent and wise all powerful government

Pete

[finnbow]

Speaking of religion, how's this grab you?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0...ec1_lnk1|61653

[d-ray657]

I'm sure that there are plenty of Republicans who would like her out of the picture too.

Regards,

D-Ray

[whell]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

No. And that is my entire point. Keep religion OUT of government and vice versa. That's what YOU don't get.

Dave

Please find a single instance where I have posted support of it. Let me save you the trouble. You won't.