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  #11  
Old 05-22-2015, 11:00 AM
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CarlV CarlV is offline
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If you work for largest employer in the United States of America you qualify for government assistance so why do we need unions?

BTW, this government assistance is a perfect example of corporate welfare.


Carl
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  #12  
Old 05-22-2015, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by nailer View Post
Just classical supply/demand economics of which labor is a part. A union limits the supply of labor by limiting the workforce to it's members. The rest of the labor pool suffers.
If you are offered a job and it is a union shop then join the union. Hell even the government is anti labor whey do you suppose the Fed defines full employment as having 5% or slightly less unemployed?
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  #13  
Old 05-22-2015, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nailer View Post
Just classical supply/demand economics of which labor is a part. A union limits the supply of labor by limiting the workforce to it's members. The rest of the labor pool suffers and the suffering is so thin an addition it's not really noticeable until applied to a global labor market.
So, a collusion of employers agreeing to force wages to the lowest possible level could be expected to get an eventual response from the labor pool, once conditions become intolerable, whether thru organization or political upheaval. Of these two, organization would likely be preferable to revolution.

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Last edited by Pio1980; 05-22-2015 at 11:56 AM.
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  #14  
Old 05-22-2015, 11:37 AM
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BlueStreak BlueStreak is offline
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I laugh when I hear "The small businessman is the engine of the economy."

No, he isn't.

The small businessman only exists because others in his community have the means to utilize his services/products. If the bulk of his neighbors simply struggle to survive due to weak wages, the small businessman suffers.

Example;

Some sort of valuable resource is found. A mining company comes to sink a mine and brings dozens of skilled miners with them. Initially, the mining company sets up temporary housing, but the desire for home ownership and other goods and services arises. If the workers are well paid, there will be more demand and more money to be spent at that level. Ancillary businesses will spring up to feed into this demand. Home construction, grocery stores, gas stations, etc., etc.......... More people, more business for the smaller businesses.

Now, take away the strong wages at the mine. Everything else suffers.

The economy slows, the town slowly dies.

You can talk about what "SHOULD" happen all you want. That's what "DOES" happen. Large scale employers, providing high paying jobs and high quality employment are what built this country over the last 100 years or so. (Industrial Revolution) The guy with a few lawnmowers on a trailer is barely feeding his own family and creates high value employment for no one. In fact, he is not "independent", he is deeply dependent on the rest of us.

America will not remain great, depending on small business and low wages. It simply does not work.

Dave
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Last edited by BlueStreak; 05-22-2015 at 11:40 AM.
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  #15  
Old 05-22-2015, 01:57 PM
Tom Joad Tom Joad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueStreak View Post
I laugh when I hear "The small businessman is the engine of the economy."

No, he isn't.

The small businessman only exists because others in his community have the means to utilize his services/products. If the bulk of his neighbors simply struggle to survive due to weak wages, the small businessman suffers.

Example;

Some sort of valuable resource is found. A mining company comes to sink a mine and brings dozens of skilled miners with them. Initially, the mining company sets up temporary housing, but the desire for home ownership and other goods and services arises. If the workers are well paid, there will be more demand and more money to be spent at that level. Ancillary businesses will spring up to feed into this demand. Home construction, grocery stores, gas stations, etc., etc.......... More people, more business for the smaller businesses.

Now, take away the strong wages at the mine. Everything else suffers.

The economy slows, the town slowly dies.

You can talk about what "SHOULD" happen all you want. That's what "DOES" happen. Large scale employers, providing high paying jobs and high quality employment are what built this country over the last 100 years or so. (Industrial Revolution) The guy with a few lawnmowers on a trailer is barely feeding his own family and creates high value employment for no one. In fact, he is not "independent", he is deeply dependent on the rest of us.

America will not remain great, depending on small business and low wages. It simply does not work.

Dave
Thanks for that dose of reality.

You are right of course.

The Dude that painted my house is lucky if he cleared $12-15 bucks an hour and he did a helluva job and worked his ass off. And he got sick for a while but was afraid to go to the doctor because he has no health insurance.

The Dude that has the little lawn equipment shop and who fixed my lawn edger dresses like Little Abner and drives a beat up 20 year old pick up that looks like it's ready for the boneyard.

The guys who worked on my roof didn't look any more prosperous than he did.

A few of the more successful small businesses I see around here have one or two family members that own the place that are living pretty good but their employees are lucky if they are making 25K-30K a year.

They all depend on people that make decent money at jobs with either government or big companies who can afford to pay them to do odd jobs for them.

Last edited by Tom Joad; 05-22-2015 at 02:03 PM.
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  #16  
Old 05-22-2015, 05:38 PM
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Oerets Oerets is offline
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There would of never of been a reason for unions in the first place if the job creators cared enough about their employees to treat them fairly.

If there was a place to go and get satisfaction when treated unfairly again unions would not be needed. But in the real world employees are mistreated underpaid let go even hurt now with little protection.

You think CEO's work without a negotiated in print contract?

Now don't use that old tired argument of a union protecting some lazy so and so. Because that happens in non union shops to, except they usually are golf buddies with the higherups and become your know nothing new boss!





Barney
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  #17  
Old 09-10-2015, 03:29 PM
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d-ray657 d-ray657 is offline
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Interestingly, when I took that presidential preference quiz, I noticed that over 50% of participants said that unions are a good thing for the economy.

Regards,

D-Ray
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  #18  
Old 09-10-2015, 06:40 PM
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I'm not against unions..... But the one I am required to be a member of (if I want the job) really sucks.

I'm sure it's a local thing.
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  #19  
Old 09-10-2015, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d-ray657 View Post
Interestingly, when I took that presidential preference quiz, I noticed that over 50% of participants said that unions are a good thing for the economy.

Regards,

D-Ray
I guess that means that the other 50% are effin' ignorant of history.
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  #20  
Old 09-10-2015, 09:15 PM
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mpholland mpholland is offline
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I wouldn't call myself anti-union, but there is only one union pipe bending shop in the Portland metro area. My company pays as well, has as good or better benefits, and is a much shorter commute. Not to mention the fact that when the economy took a shit in 09, I was one of eight that continued working, even though i had little seniority at the time. That was based on my skill and work ethic. I get unionization would help the country, but there are still a handful of good companies out there.
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