Manufacturing Illusions

Dondilion · #1 02-20-2012, 04:34 PM

Robert Reich puts the new dance on Manufacturing in perpective.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opi...786579549.html

noonereal · #2 02-20-2012, 07:11 PM

"Bringing back US manufacturing isn't the real challenge, anyway. It's creating good jobs for the majority of Americans who lack four-year college degrees.

Manufacturing used to supply lots of these kinds of jobs, but that was only because factory workers were represented by unions powerful enough to get high wages.

That's no longer the case"

True dat.

djv8ga · #3 02-20-2012, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noonereal

"Bringing back US manufacturing isn't the real challenge, anyway. It's creating good jobs for the majority of Americans who lack four-year college degrees.

Manufacturing used to supply lots of these kinds of jobs, but that was only because factory workers were represented by unions powerful enough to get high wages.

That's no longer the case"

True dat.

You know...to maufacture a lot of products requires skill, education, and/or talent. I'm not sure you know what your talking about.

BlueStreak · #4 02-20-2012, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noonereal

"Bringing back US manufacturing isn't the real challenge, anyway. It's creating good jobs for the majority of Americans who lack four-year college degrees.

Manufacturing used to supply lots of these kinds of jobs, but that was only because factory workers were represented by unions powerful enough to get high wages.

That's no longer the case"

True dat.

That's about the size of it.

Dave

whell · #5 02-20-2012, 07:31 PM

I think the fundamental question is "do we NEED to bring the manufacturing sector back"? And if we do, precisely what do we need to bring it back to?

I don't think that there's any question that the fundamental economics of the manufacturing sector has changed. Gone are the days when a worker could make a decent wage by turning a bolt on a car roiling down the assembly line. The assembly line in the US and other countries is now largely automated. The skill set required to be successful is different, and I think thats a good thing. But it is far less labor intensive than is was 30 to 40 years ago. Do any of the candidates - when saying they want to bring back the manufacturing sector - truly mean that they want to oversee the proliferation of low skill, high wage jobs? Is this even possible anymore in this world economy? I don't think it is.

So, the political rhetoric again lacks any specificity, as is usually the case. However, I can't imagine that any one of them, including and especially Romney, seriously believes that this country is going to redevelop an abundance of relatively low skill, good paying jobs. The focus should be elevating the skills of our workforce to attract more skilled jobs, which will then offer greater pay.

finnbow · #6 02-20-2012, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whell

I think the fundamental question is "do we NEED to bring the manufacturing sector back"? And if we do, precisely what do we need to bring it back to?

I don't think that there's any question that the fundamental economics of the manufacturing sector has changed. Gone are the days when a worker could make a decent wage by turning a bolt on a car roiling down the assembly line. The assembly line in the US and other countries is now largely automated. The skill set required to be successful is different, and I think thats a good thing. But it is far less labor intensive than is was 30 to 40 years ago. Do any of the candidates - when saying they want to bring back the manufacturing sector - truly mean that they want to oversee the proliferation of low skill, high wage jobs? Is this even possible anymore in this world economy? I don't think it is.

So, the political rhetoric again lacks any specificity, as is usually the case. However, I can't imagine that any one of them, including and especially Romney, seriously believes that this country is going to redevelop an abundance of relatively low skill, good paying jobs. The focus should be elevating the skills of our workforce to attract more skilled jobs, which will then offer greater pay.

QFT. Well written, Whell.

BlueStreak · #7 02-20-2012, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whell

I think the fundamental question is "do we NEED to bring the manufacturing sector back"? And if we do, precisely what do we need to bring it back to?

I don't think that there's any question that the fundamental economics of the manufacturing sector has changed. Gone are the days when a worker could make a decent wage by turning a bolt on a car roiling down the assembly line. The assembly line in the US and other countries is now largely automated. The skill set required to be successful is different, and I think thats a good thing. But it is far less labor intensive than is was 30 to 40 years ago. Do any of the candidates - when saying they want to bring back the manufacturing sector - truly mean that they want to oversee the proliferation of low skill, high wage jobs? Is this even possible anymore in this world economy? I don't think it is.

So, the political rhetoric again lacks any specificity, as is usually the case. However, I can't imagine that any one of them, including and especially Romney, seriously believes that this country is going to redevelop an abundance of relatively low skill, good paying jobs. The focus should be elevating the skills of our workforce to attract more skilled jobs, which will then offer greater pay.

Skills can only be as elevated as the aptitude of the individual allows.

The notion that everyone, or even a strong majority (>75%) of our workers can be elevated into technical positions is foolishness. We have no choice but to develop some decent paying low to midlevel skilled jobs or end up with weak consumerism and a permanently sluggish economy, IMHO.

Realistically, I don't see how anyone can argue with that. You create jobs for the boneheads too, or you end up supporting them on the public dole and in the prison system.

Am I being harsh? Perhaps. But, that's how I am. Get used to it.

I won't even get into arguing what a "decent" wage would be right now. That's another can of worms.

Besides, how do we "elevate" the skills of our workers, when penny-pinching tightwad conservatives would simply refuse to help pay for it anyways?

Dave

noonereal · #8 02-21-2012, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

You create jobs for the boneheads too, or you end up supporting them on the public dole and in the prison system.

Am I being harsh?

no, you are being honest

merrylander · #9 02-21-2012, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whell

So, the political rhetoric again lacks any specificity, as is usually the case. However, I can't imagine that any one of them, including and especially Romney, seriously believes that this country is going to redevelop an abundance of relatively low skill, good paying jobs. The focus should be elevating the skills of our workforce to attract more skilled jobs, which will then offer greater pay.

All at public expense? So the real job for our schools is to turn out robots for the manufacturing sector.

piece-itpete · #10 02-21-2012, 08:56 AM

A large part of the problem is the parents and societies focus on college in general.

One of my nephews was a natural turning a wrench, amazing. They send him to college, because a tech job was beneath the family.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

....

Besides, how do we "elevate" the skills of our workers, when penny-pinching tightwad conservatives would simply refuse to help pay for it anyways?

Dave

Couldn't find any training love in the 800 bil stimulous?

Pete