|
|
We appreciate your help
in keeping this site going.
|
|
03-24-2015, 06:09 AM
|
|
Jigsawed
|
|
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 10,580
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boreas
Nope! My guess is we won't.
Our screwed up meddling in Ukraine has got Germany and, to a lesser extent, France all but siding with Russia. So, maybe the German and French press?
One thing that's probably going to blow up in Putin's face, though, are the Russian casualties that aren't occurring in a war they're not fighting. Families are getting very pissed off.
|
I am trending to the position that the US is willing to accept the present status of the frozen east so long as the Russian separatists do not try to take Mariupol. Kiev under US influence made a quick stab at getting rid of the separatists. The influx of Russian troops thwarted the effort and France and Germany became active against escalation.
The US primary objective now is to try to stabilize Kiev Ukraine economic conditions and this cannot be achieved whilst there is large scale fighting and or errant oligarchs.
It might seem that the input of military advisors is primarily aimed at the Russians but I believe it has two parts: one is to take down the powerful
oligarchs/warlords.
Any oligarch who cannot adjust is going to be pushed aside...even Poroshenko.
US banksters/investors clique is chomping at the bit. BTW Noticed Biden's son was sent in early.
|
03-24-2015, 06:34 AM
|
|
Jigsawed
|
|
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 10,580
|
|
|
03-24-2015, 09:14 AM
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Sonoma County, CA
Posts: 20,496
|
|
History Repeats Itself
"But there was no law among them, and tribe rose against tribe. Discord thus ensued among them, and they began to war one against the other. They said to themselves, 'Let us seek a prince who may rule over us, and judge us according to custom'. Thus they went overseas to the Varangians, to the Rus. These particular Varangians were known as Rus, just as some are called Swedes, and others Normans and Angles, and still others Gutes, for they were thus named. The Chuds, the Slavs, the Krivichs and the Veps then said to the Rus, 'Our land is great and rich, but there is no order in it. Come reign as princes, rule over us'. Three brothers, with their kinfolk, were selected. They brought with them all the Rus and migrated."
—The Primary Chronicle[9]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rus%27_...mary_879-902-9
__________________
Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast.
|
03-29-2015, 08:53 AM
|
|
Possibly admin. Maybe ;)
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Land of the burning river
Posts: 21,098
|
|
Funny how the slam on free Ukraine is that they are having trouble with oligarchs, which is the Russian system
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boreas
.....
On the other hand, there are elements of the Pro-Ukrainian side who openly espouse Nazi ideals as to race, religion, gender identity, etc. These sides have been folded into the Ukrainian defense forces as volunteer units. The Azov Battalion comes to mind, fully integrated into the Ukrainian army. Also, the neo-Nazi Right Sector has formed a volunteer unit that's operating in the Donbass, largely outside the control of the coup government in Kiev.
As far as I'm aware, there is no analog to these groups on the separatist side.
John
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boreas
Vice News has been running a series of reports, almost 100 so far, called Russian Roulette. Worth watching.
John
|
Have you watched the recent Vice dispatch on the foreign volunteers in eastern Ukraine? But at least they're fighting America and Imperialism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boreas
Lt. Col. "Givi" used an interesting term in that interview: "Novorossiya" (New Russia). The term refers to a section of Europe that the Russians took from the Ottoman Empire in the 18th century. The territory which Russia annexed corresponds almost exactly to the currently contested areas of Ukraine.
It's really important to think about things like this when viewing the present conflict. In the minds of the people living there, and of the Russian people as well, Crimea and Eastern Ukraine are Russia in all but name. The idea of having that land under Western (read "NATO") control, powers who have been Russia's adversary for a century, is both terrifying and an insult to Russian pride.
The West is making a bad, bad mistake here.
John
PS: I really like Givi!
|
Russia's pride in relocating natives and settling Russians for decades, then claiming they're 'protecting' the Russians?
I don't get the hard lefts' love of Putin. Anything better than western democracy I suppose.
Quote:
Originally Posted by finnbow
Did the CIA also murder the ~300 journalists who have murdered in Russia since 1993 and the various political adversaries who have been on the receiving end of a bullet or a dose of poison since Putin came on board?
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europ...-Soviet-Russia
I think there's a much greater chance that the continuous bombardment of Russia by state-controlled media/propaganda riled up some violent nationalists (if Putin himself didn't help orchestrate it).
|
Finn isn't it amazing, how many events surrounding Putin require suspension of disbelief to understand 'correctly'?
Pete
__________________
“How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.”
|
03-29-2015, 09:25 AM
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Sonoma County, CA
Posts: 20,496
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by piece-itpete
Have you watched the recent Vice dispatch on the foreign volunteers in eastern Ukraine? But at least they're fighting America and Imperialism.
|
Yes, a while ago. Did you miss the earlier installment about the foreign neo-Nazis fighting on the Kiev side?
John
__________________
Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast.
|
03-29-2015, 09:44 AM
|
|
Jigsawed
|
|
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 10,580
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by piece-itpete
Funny how the slam on free Ukraine is that they are having trouble with oligarchs, which is the Russian system
Have you watched the recent Vice dispatch on the foreign volunteers in eastern Ukraine? But at least they're fighting America and Imperialism.
Russia's pride in relocating natives and settling Russians for decades, then claiming they're 'protecting' the Russians?
I don't get the hard lefts' love of Putin. Anything better than western democracy I suppose.
Finn isn't it amazing, how many events surrounding Putin require suspension of disbelief to understand 'correctly'?
Pete
|
Not only hard left but nationalists both center and far right have an understanding of what Putin inherited.
After the break up of USSR the international banksters/privatizers scavengers descended on Russia and started to pick it clean. During that process there was an internal war with international connections: the war is still on going.
BTW Pete, welcome back!
Now we have more people at the international politics forum.
Last edited by Dondilion; 03-29-2015 at 10:05 AM.
|
03-29-2015, 10:31 AM
|
|
Rational Anarchist
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: DFW
Posts: 7,315
|
|
The Ukraine is a proverbial can of worms. I don't think any Russian leader can remain in power if seen as backing down to the west regarding Russian Ukraine, especially after Crimea. I can only hope the President sees this, but he's pure empire maintenance.
__________________
"We have met the enemy and he is us."
|
03-29-2015, 11:57 AM
|
|
Jigsawed
|
|
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 10,580
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by nailer
The Ukraine is a proverbial can of worms. I don't think any Russian leader can remain in power if seen as backing down to the west regarding Russian Ukraine, especially after Crimea. I can only hope the President sees this, but he's pure empire maintenance.
|
The president sees this but he is beset by Russian hating hawks from both the Republican and Democrats. Naturally some would like to revive the cold war
with its military industrial complex implications. The MIC has heavy bipartisan support.
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:39 PM.
|