18 and Dead.

[Tom Joad]

I'm sure there is a lot more to this story than what we have already heard.

There, St. Louis County Police Jon Belmar said the incident began when the officer encountered two men on the street near an apartment complex on Saturday afternoon

What does "encountered" mean.

Were they up to no good?

Or did the officer do a George Zimmerman on them?

Cops routinely harass young black dudes just on general principles.

And I can understand why they get sick and tired of being profiled.

Yeah, you should never push a cop, but then that's easy to say when you're not having to take shit from them on a daily basis because of the way you look.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

Yeah, you should never push a cop, but then that's easy to say when you're not having to take shit from them on a daily basis because of the way you look.

Even if the worst case of what you're pointing out is true in this scenario, all bets are off once a sworn officer is pushed/followed into his car.

This isn't like Zims at all...

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by Zeke

Even if the worst case of what you're pointing out is true in this scenario, all bets are off once a sworn officer is pushed/followed into his car.

This isn't like Zims at all...

We'll see.

I still want to know why these Cops accosted this kid in the first place.

There's an automatic assumption on the part of many white people including Cops that any young black dude out walking around the street is up to no good.

When people keep thinking that way, and acting on it, it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

We'll see.

I still want to know why these Cops accosted this kid in the first place.

There's an automatic assumption on the part of many white people including Cops that any young black dude out walking around the street is up to no good.

When people keep thinking that way, and acting on it, it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

Respectfully, you miss the point.

Even if the officer were initially out of line, you get shot when I retreat to my cruiser and you engage me, inside. Example? As much as I disdain Zims, I'd feel differently about his situation had he been forced to shoot Martin inside his own home (for whatever reason) as opposed to a public sidewalk.

See the difference?

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by Zeke

Respectfully, you miss the point.

Even if the officer were initially out of line, you get shot when I retreat to my cruiser and you engage me, inside. Example? As much as I disdain Zims, I'd feel differently about his situation had he been forced to shoot Martin inside his own home (for whatever reason) as opposed to a public sidewalk.

See the difference?

Right.

If you can provoke someone into attacking you, you have every right to shoot them.

That's a little inconsistent with your views regarding the Israelis and the Palestinians isn't it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWnDVW07_1c

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

Right.

If you can provoke someone into attacking you, you have every right to shoot them.

That's a little inconsistent with your views regarding the Israelis and the Palestinians isn't it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWnDVW07_1c

Again, you're missing the point.

Regardless of what precipitated anything in this case, pressing the attack against an entity who has retreated into an area of presumed safety universally recognized as theirs gets you shot. (i.e., if Trayvon had followed Zims into has house and gets wacked? That's on him regardless of what occurred, before.) The engagement occurred in a police cruiser. Are you trying to justify that?

Your Israel comparison is weak on two fronts:

1. Israel is the aggressor, not a victim.
2. Israel is FAR from universally recognized as rightfully possessing anything.

[4-2-7]

Originally Posted by Zeke

Again, you're missing the point.

Regardless of what precipitated anything in this case, pressing the attack against an entity who has retreated into an area of presumed safety universally recognized as theirs gets you shot. (i.e., if Trayvon had followed Zims into has house and gets wacked? That's on him regardless of what occurred, before.) The engagement occurred in a police cruiser. Are you trying to justify that?

Your Israel comparison is weak on two fronts:

1. Israel is the aggressor, not a victim.
2. Israel is FAR from universally recognized as rightfully possessing anything.

Wow I was with you up till this point. I guess American Indians are FAR from rightfully possessing anything with your logic.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

Right.

If you can provoke someone into attacking you, you have every right to shoot them.

That's a little inconsistent with your views regarding the Israelis and the Palestinians isn't it?

Dontcha think?

The best advice I ever got from the older guys in the neighborhood was just "yes sir...no sir" in response to any questions and "yes sir" in response to any instructions. I also received clear education that it was the morons who laid hands on the coppers, and if you do you get way worse than the piss beat outta you.

One night, I was about 16, a bunch of us were hanging out at the park and I made the mistake of getting pissed off and responding to a strong "go the fuck home kid" with an idiotic "I'll think about it." I ended up on my face in the street with a knee in my back and a knee on the back of my head. And when I got to the lock-up they almost knocked me out pitching me into an interview room and bouncing me off the back wall.

When they woke up my old man to come down to the precinct and get me it didn't get much better. He didn't like that I was beat up pretty bad, but he made the wise choice to take me home, rather than getting pissed off at them about it and me ending up charged with drunk and disorderly.

That said...I'm white so in the couple of cases where I took a beating, that was as far as it went. And almost everybody takes a beating sometimes from somebody.

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

That said...I'm white so in the couple of cases where I took a beating, that was as far as it went.

And therein lies the rub, as you Shakespearean Scholars like to say.

I actually got stopped just the other day for making an illegal turn.

That's not that hard to do here in Mobile Alabama.

They have the most fucked up frontage road design in the world.

I'm retired FDOT and I can tell you that our traffic ops people would laugh their asses off if they could see it.

I was tempted to tell the Cop that, but instead I was just ultra respectful and got off with a warning.

Us 67 year old Graybeard's can generally pull that off.

But I can tell you this. If I had been born black I would be dead or in prison right now. There is no way I would put up with the shit they hae to take from Cops.

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

One night, I was about 16, a bunch of us were hanging out at the park and I made the mistake of getting pissed off and responding to a strong "go the fuck home kid" with an idiotic "I'll think about it." I ended up on my face in the street with a knee in my back and a knee on the back of my head. And when I got to the lock-up they almost knocked me out pitching me into an interview room and bouncing me off the back wall.

So you were always a little punk trouble maker huh?

It's not just here on the internet.