I think they're lying. And I think they know it.

[hillbilly]

Tennessee has been talking about it and has made a couple good points. They reminding folks of how fast the TN-Care system went to hell. They said anytime it is easy for folks to get free health insurance, more folks will lean towards the free rather than providing for themselves. Folks that got on TN-Care started going to the ER when they couldn't see their regular doctor the moment they wanted to see him, and when it's not an emergency it hurts the hell out of the system. Folks that got on TN-Care also started rushing to the doctor anytime they, or their child got a little sniffle that'd gone away in a day or two without the need to see a doctor.

Folks paying for their own insurance that have to spend their own money for a copay each doctor visit are far less likely to waste money over a little sniffle.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by hillbilly

Tennessee has been talking about it and has made a couple good points. They reminding folks of how fast the TN-Care system went to hell. They said anytime it is easy for folks to get free health insurance, more folks will lean towards the free rather than providing for themselves. Folks that got on TN-Care started going to the ER when they couldn't see their regular doctor the moment they wanted to see him, and when it's not an emergency it hurts the hell out of the system. Folks that got on TN-Care also started rushing to the doctor anytime they, or their child got a little sniffle that'd gone away in a day or two without the need to see a doctor.

The thing about using the emergency room as your primary health care provider is that the uninsured do that too. Except they do it every time. At least with TN-Care folks could see their plan doctor some of the time. Also, I don't see a problem with people erring on the side of caution and seeing a doctor when it might not be necessary. That's far better than not seeing a doctor when it is necessary.

Folks paying for their own insurance that have to spend their own money for a copay each doctor visit are far less likely to waste money over a little sniffle.

But you see , none of the health care plans before Congress include anything in the way of free health care beyond Medicaid which already exists as a means tested program. The "Public Option" you hear about isn't free and it isn't "government health care". It's also a means tested program with private health care provided through private insurance companies.

John

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by Boreas

But you see , none of the health care plans before Congress include anything in the way of free health care beyond Medicaid which already exists as a means tested program. The "Public Option" you hear about isn't free and it isn't "government health care". It's also a means tested program with private health care provided through private insurance companies.

Otherwise know as a get rich quick scheme.

[doucanoe]

The abuses in our MN Care program would make even your most liberal minded bleeding hearts snarl with anger. I am probably wrong about that but would like to think it would be the case. If people really knew about the abuses and the wasted hundreds of millions annually, their would be blood in the streets.

I don't need supporting documentation for that statement. My wife lives in the heart of the beast as lead nurse (RN) for a very large clinic/hospital.

She used to be very liberal in her politics, but the reality of it all has changed her opinions a tad. The truth of reality trumps blind ideology I guess.

RC

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by doucanoe

The abuses in our MN Care program would make even your most liberal minded bleeding hearts snarl with anger. I am probably wrong about that but would like to think it would be the case. If people really knew about the abuses and the wasted hundreds of millions annually, their would be blood in the streets.

I don't need supporting documentation for that statement. My wife lives in the heart of the beast as lead nurse (RN) for a very large clinic/hospital.

She used to be very liberal in her politics, but the reality of it all has changed her opinions a tad. The truth of reality trumps blind ideology I guess.

RC

What can I say? Republican greed and corruption.

It's all back to St. Ronnie and the "nine most terrifying words in the English language": "We're from the government and we're here to help." When you have such a cynical view of government it's easy to permit yourself to pillage it for personal gain, from Halliburton to Abramov to "Duke" Cunningham the story's the same.

John

PS: Reality reinforces my "bleeding heart liberalism" every day.

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by Boreas

What can I say? Republican greed and corruption.

It's all back to St. Ronnie and the "nine most terrifying words in the English language": "We're from the government and we're here to help." When you have such a cynical view of government it's easy to permit yourself to pillage it for personal gain, from Halliburton to Abramov to "Duke" Cunningham the story's the same.

John

PS: Reality reinforces my "bleeding heart liberalism" every day.

Given our insane system the miracle is that government even works at all. Show me any other country that requires an incoming preident to make in excess of 8000 appointments (in the face of a recalcitrant Congress) and it is probably some corrupt dictatorship.

So there is John Q Civilservant trying to do his job and they change management - and direction - every four or eight years.

Then take that collection of imbeciles known as the Senate. One lone senator, old doc Coburn (who once said he was Senator Ensign's OB-Gyn - say what?) can hold up a bill designed to assist veterans from even being debated. One lone barking idiot in a nation of over 300 million people can block legislation from even being discussed, and you call this democracy?
Feh!

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by merrylander

One lone senator, old doc Coburn (who once said he was Senator Ensign's OB-Gyn - say what?)

Yeah, you know, he takes care of Ensign's property.

John

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by doucanoe

I would tend to agree. I know how furious I am when I see the abuses in the banking and insurance industry for example.

I have little trouble believing this even if it is undocumented.

This part I don't understand at all. Why would mismanagement or abuse of one system change a persons personal values. (which is essentially what politics is)

Again I don't understand the conversion in this case.

[Charles]

Originally Posted by doucanoe

The abuses in our MN Care program would make even your most liberal minded bleeding hearts snarl with anger. I am probably wrong about that but would like to think it would be the case. If people really knew about the abuses and the wasted hundreds of millions annually, their would be blood in the streets.

I don't need supporting documentation for that statement. My wife lives in the heart of the beast as lead nurse (RN) for a very large clinic/hospital.

She used to be very liberal in her politics, but the reality of it all has changed her opinions a tad. The truth of reality trumps blind ideology I guess.

RC

Is everyone's wife an RN?

If I had any sense, I'd go back to school and become one myself. And I guarantee you, the sight of me walking the corridor with a rectal thermometer would be enough to convince most people that they were healthy enough to become lumberjacks!!!!

Chas

[doucanoe]

"This part I don't understand at all. Why would mismanagement or abuse of one system change a persons personal values. (which is essentially what politics is)"

"Again I don't understand the conversion in this case."




I know the both of you don't get it, I know you don't.

The required explanation would take to long and I fear it would fall on deaf ears anyway. I lack the patience for it.

I guess it just illustrates the vast differences in our thinking and how we process information.

RC