Fighting and losing is better than not. If Hillary had beaten Trump, she would have the same non cooperative Congress as Bernie.

No. :cool:

The House Freedom Caucus has not taken a position for or against the Act. They DO want an up or down vote on full repeal, but that doesn't mean they won't support the Act when it comes up for a vote. The same goes for Americans for Prosperity, Heritage, etc. As far as left leaning AARP, AMA, etc, no surprise there.

The political reality is that there likely aren't the votes for a full repeal because they'd need Dems to cross party lines....where Pelosi and Schumer would be waiting to nuke any that did.

"WASHINGTON — Republicans are rarely as exercised as when they are fighting with themselves.
And as the House debates how to best dismantle the Affordable Care Act, a familiar array of interest groups with deep pockets, incensed talk radio hosts and online agitators is again assuming its posture of aggression toward the House Republican leadership.
“Swampcare,” the writer and radio personality Erick Erickson scoffed at the new American Health Care Act, the culmination of seven years of promises to repeal and replace President Barack Obama’s signature domestic achievement. “Obamacare 2.0,” declared Breitbart.com. “RINOCARE,” Mark Levin wrote on Twitter, using the acronym for Republican in Name Only.
Political groups backed by the billionaire brothers Charles and David Koch and other powerful players on the right, such as Club for Growth and Heritage Action for America, have come out quickly and strongly against the bill. Some have threatened to punish lawmakers by docking their conservative ratings on the influential “scorecards” they distribute to voters. Activists are already swarming Capitol Hill and demanding that Congress take a harder line and pass a repeal measure that would leave no trace of the Affordable Care Act.
“I feel lied to,” said Anna Beavon Gravely, the deputy state director of the North Carolina chapter of Americans for Prosperity, a Koch-backed group that is funding a grass-roots push against Republicans in Congress who want to stop short of an outright repeal." NY Times

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/09/u...T.nav=top-news

You were saying? :rolleyes:

Doesn't mean they will either.

The conservative House Freedom Caucus is not satisfied with the GOP’s newly released health care plan. At a press conference on Capitol Hill on Tuesday, the representatives disclosed how they plan to respond.

“You have to get rid of Obamacare completely,” Rep. Mark Meadows (R-NC) said. The legislation released on Monday does not satisfy that condition.

“The leadership plan is Obamacare in a different form,” Rep. Jim Jordan (R-OH) said, agreeing with his colleague.

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/cortne...-bill-n2295444

Trump has even lost the lunatic fringe. Take a look at this list of RyanTrumpCare opponents and see if you can find a similar list of those in favor of it.
http://www.vox.com/2017/3/9/14869448...-health-reform

The Koch's are against it. Tax credits for those schmucks? Let them die.

I have to laugh when the AMA is described as being "left leaning." In most cases a majority of the AMA doctors I know are slightly right of Attila the Hun.

However, they do recognize the "new" plan will cause the insurance rolls to shrink, which means less payable business for them. They oppose the new plan because it hits them hard in the pocketbook, where as nursing organizations oppose it because it ensures more people will go without adequate medical care.

Which would mean fewer nursing jobs too.

Everyone is having a go at the new health <ahem> plan, but I think Trevor Noah really got off an excellent segment. At the end, Trump sets himself up perfectly and then Trump lets him have it! Definitely a 10!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QD-jvOJfgA

John Oliver's effort, previously, came up with a priceless graphic to illustrate 'inadequate coverage....'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEGpriv2TAc

I think the Democrats should goad the GOP into repealing Obamacare. That would foment a battle between the conservatives and Trump/Ryan limited partnership. Hopefully Trump will Twitter his feelings on the topic. ;)

Eventually they should listen to reason and begin to fix Obamacare. Guess a guy can dream. Nominating Bernie was a dream too. :)

The only "death panel" is the Republican party.

Raj I am still laughing over a piece in the Post that referred to Ryan as the intellectual leader of the GOP. Say what? I read Atlas Shrugged at seventeen and knew even at that tender age it was a crock, but it is Ryan's Bible. If he is what passes for an intellectual here we are in big trouble. :rolleyes:

Poor people with no insurance still use emergency rooms for their doctor, but they cannot pay.

Nurses are mainly hourly workers and are focused on providing direct care to patients. They generally do not need to focus on profit, expenses, or revenue streams until they get quite high in management. During periods of low census with beds not filled, nurses get sent home.

Having many, many relatives on both the doctor and nurse side, the nurses almost always are advocating for universal health care because they want people to have proper basic medical care.

The doctors are torn between their oath to promote the health and welfare of their patients, the desire to make lots of money(or more money,) and the universal scorn that their money making ability, the rates they charge, and their independent ability to practice are limited on all sides by insurance companies, the government, and the advent of UHC or single payer.

This trifecta of concerns drives doctors to be Republican in nature.

I too read that book about the same age, maybe a bit later after I entered college. At that time I was an avowed soshulist, maybe even a borderline communist. :)

I do believe that Ryan and Pence are two scary dudes.

You too? Ryan panders to the wealthy and holds poor folks in disdain, I think he figures that the way to abolish poverty is to starve them all to death. Pence seems to believe in that Old Testament command 'wives submit yourselves to your husbands'. He views women as property. Makes me think of Florence's late husband (she was a widow when we met) he always said she was his proudest possession, sheesh! The minister was told that the words 'serve and obey' were not even to be thought at our wedding let alone mentioned. There is an old saying - God did not take woman from man's forehead that he should command her, neither from his foot that she should be his slave, but rather from his side that she should be close to his heart. She always was.

At my old civilian x-ray job they called it flexing. If it was slow they would want to send someone home early so the Hospital saved on paying wages. If it was busy they would want you to work an unscheduled overtime. Anyway if they sent you home early you would be losing out on money to pay the mortgage, and the only recourse would be for you to not get paid or use PTO to make up the difference. So they were screwing workers out of vacation time as well.

Most for profit hospitals want to game the system when it comes to paying their staff (I am not talking about doctors either). I would rather work a steady 40 hours a week with good pay at an adequately staffed hospital than get paid a higher wage but get bounced around like a basketball doing on call because the hospital is too cheap to adequately staff all shifts.

You would be surprised at how some hospitals treat their employees not too differently than fast food workers. Sure they might pay $30-40 bucks an hour but they pull a lot of BS to screw workers out of decent hours and benefits. My experience working in a for profit non-union hospital in the West. I have heard that the East Coast hospitals are better because more are union.

Republicans are the party of the scary dude.

Another thing the do is hire workers as per diem (casual relief) that are only supposed to work a shift or two a pay period. Say a weekend warrior who doesn't get benefits because he or she is not even full time.

Then they work that person almost 40 hours a week but never offer them full time with benefits.
Of course if you need the benefits it sucks because to get your foot in the door you usually have to be per diem in the first place before they consider you for full-time, and in a saturated employment market that is very easy to do. In other words a person starts to work near 40 hours a week for a year before they become full time. Ok if you don't need insurance but not if you do.

Biologically speaking, figuratively, female preceded male which means women came first. :)

Right, 'cuz the lefty press wouldn't bother with taking an extra look around to see who might actually support it. That's just not how they roll when reporting on anything the Repubs might do. Sure as the sun will rise tomorrow you'd never find that list on Vox.

So, I'll you them, and you, out. Here are a few:

Americans for Tax Reform: http://www.atr.org/atr-statement-sup...re-repeal-bill

National Taxpayers Union: http://www.ntu.org/governmentbytes/d...alth-care-plan

US Chamber of Commerce: https://waysandmeans.house.gov/wp-co...ce-Support.pdf

Medical Device Manufacturers Assn: https://waysandmeans.house.gov/wp-co...on-Support.pdf

American Medical Technology Assn: http://www.advamed.org/newsroom/pres...on-legislation

Association of Mature American Citizens: https://amac.us/nations-largest-cons...macare-repeal/

American Legislative Exchange Council: https://www.alec.org/press-release/t...wer-to-states/

I am willing to bet that most if not all stand to benefit monetarily from some form of tax relief for them to support this bill.

I recall reading that the Medical Device people stand to gain around $27 Billion.

"As part of an effort to rein in soaring executive pay, the ACA decreed that health insurance companies could deduct from their taxes only $500,000 of the pay of each top executive. That’s a tighter restriction than the limit imposed on other corporations, which is $1 million per executive. The ACA closed a loophole for insurance companies enjoyed by other corporations, which could deduct the cost of stock options and other “performance-based” pay; for insurance companies, the deduction cap is $500,000 per executive, period." LA Times

What do you expect from the party of sphincter-kissing flunkies? They love to run at the heels of the rich.

That's a sorry ass group, all of whom whom stand to gain financially from TrumpCare. Association of Mature American Citizens??? WTF???

Ah--you have four Koch-funded outfits, two manufacturer's associations who care about nothing but getting rid of the medical device tax, and the AMAC, the 'conservaticve AARP' that built their membership from nothing to over a million with strident anti-ACA activism.

Wow.

You can say much the same about the groups on the list of detractors. Nothing new about that.

So what? Fin's point was that Act was not supported by groups on the "right". So my post was intended to refute that.

What, do you live in some fantasy world where you think Vox is going to compile a list of groups that would support the Act? :confused:

Yeah, the US Chamber of Commerce is a "sorry ass group". :rolleyes: Yours is a predictable, irrelevant response.

So what? What you have is a very small group of people trying to screw over the majority for vast profit. I realize in your america this is a good and proper thing to do, but anyone with a moral center would see a problem with it.

Yeah, it reads like a list of rightwing front groups and think tanks. ALEC? Yeah, that's a Republican think tank and probably where the GOP proposal was formulated......Gee, I wonder why they support the GOP plan?:rolleyes:

The bottom line is that the Republican plan is a return to for-profit-first business as usual health care under the idea that health care is a commodity and not a right.
The Republican party is the "death panel" here. No money? Fuck you, go die in the gutter.

And the Ama and the insurance industry didn't favor the ACA because they thought it would be profitable? LOL!

Yawn. Already addressed this.

Not sure why this matters anyway. You guys have apparently forgotten - likely on purpose - that Dems didn't care much for the ACA early on. The Blue Dogs didn't like it. In the Senate, the Dems had to go buy votes to pass it. Remeber Ben Nelson's Cornhusker kickback? Mary Landreu's Louisiana Purchase? Remember how Po'd the far left was - including folks on this forum - that the ACA fell short of universal healthcare?

Hell, most of you are STILL pissed about that!

The Republican proposal to replace the Affordable Care Act would strip away what advocates say is essential coverage for drug addiction treatment as the number of people dying from opiate overdoses is skyrocketing nationwide.

Beginning in 2020, the plan would eliminate an Affordable Care Act requirement that Medicaid cover basic mental-health and addiction services in states that expanded it, allowing them to decide whether to include those benefits in Medicaid plans.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ion-americans/

More compassionate conservatism.:cool:

Yeah, many wanted single payer and rightfully so. The bad about that is that Obama was still trying to reach out building on a GOP idea, what the ACA actually is/was. Now the fascists in power are driving the bus off a cliff. The same thing as they are doing with everything else in the USA too.

Former CBO Director: It's A Good Start

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.75cf42cd7637

The ACA dictated insurance choices to individuals and families with its bronze, silver, gold and other levels. It required that they shop in government-run exchanges to get subsidies, and it levied a fee on those who were uninsured. The AHCA places trust in the decisions of individuals and families by making greater use of health savings accounts (which hone the market incentives for higher-value care) and respecting their ability to follow incentives to be continuously insured. Its refundable tax credit will be available to all low- to moderate-income individuals and will tend to equalize the tax treatment of employer and individual insurance.

AARP, the Medical Hospital Association, the AMA, the American Nursing Association, and all 150+ hospital Missouri Hospitals Association oppose this proposal. Never knew there were that many liberals! Especially AARP. Those damn bluehairs, wanting medical care! Who do they think they are!

Trump said this during his campaign.
http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign...rumps-promises

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Action_Network

Hardly a unbiased source.