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-   -   Ahhhh, now it's tha "Deep State"! Oooooo.............. (http://www.politicalchat.org/showthread.php?t=11535)

BlueStreak 03-07-2017 11:14 AM

Ahhhh, now it's tha "Deep State"! Oooooo..............
 
http://www.breitbart.com/radio/2017/...ts-deep-state/

Move aside, Bilderbergers and Rothchilds. Soros, you're not scary enough. Shadow Government, you have new competition.........

The GOP has a new Boogeyman to scare the rubes into the voting booth.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you "THE DEEP STATE"!!!!:eek::eek::eek::eek:

Fugging lunatics. Why does anyone take these jackasses seriously anymore?

Pio1980 03-07-2017 11:18 AM

Blightfart, right. Far right.
More obfuscation thru disinformation.

finnbow 03-07-2017 12:08 PM

Federal agencies always only replace the very uppermost veneer of political appointees during a transition. Every one below that level is career Federal service. It has always been thus. Only now does it matter now that we have a paranoid lunatic as President.

bobabode 03-07-2017 12:13 PM

Mark Levin, Rush, Alex Jones, Bannon, Trump. Same old creepy cast of lunatics baying at the moon while filling their Depends. :rolleyes:

donquixote99 03-07-2017 12:33 PM

Be aware that this propaganda effort will be coordinated with the wikileaks dump of CIA "hacking" data yesterday. NYTimes. The line will be that there was no Russian hacking, it was the hostile CIA pretending to be Russians. Cry false flag!

Wonder if someone will come up with a list of 50 'Obama operatives' in the CIA next.

Yes, this can get dangerous. Twitter attack continues today. Obama definitely being developed as a hate figure.

(photo used on Brietbart--'bad or sick guy,' right?)
http://media.breitbart.com/media/201...za-640x480.jpg

whell 03-07-2017 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueStreak (Post 349879)
http://www.breitbart.com/radio/2017/...ts-deep-state/

Move aside, Bilderbergers and Rothchilds. Soros, you're not scary enough. Shadow Government, you have new competition.........

The GOP has a new Boogeyman to scare the rubes into the voting booth.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you "THE DEEP STATE"!!!!:eek::eek::eek::eek:

Fugging lunatics. Why does anyone take these jackasses seriously anymore?

Sorry, that term is "old news". Its use pre-dates Trump and the 2016 election. Here's an example from one of your pal bloggers at HuffPo, describing the deep state as he saw it in 2011:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-t...b_3569316.html

Bill Moyers seemed to be able to find it again in 2014, and was apparently aware of it when he worked as a congressional staffer:

The Deep State does not consist of the entire government. It is a hybrid of national security and law enforcement agencies: the Department of Defense, the Department of State, the Department of Homeland Security, the Central Intelligence Agency and the Justice Department. I also include the Department of the Treasury because of its jurisdiction over financial flows, its enforcement of international sanctions and its organic symbiosis with Wall Street. All these agencies are coordinated by the Executive Office of the President via the National Security Council. Certain key areas of the judiciary belong to the Deep State, such as the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, whose actions are mysterious even to most members of Congress. Also included are a handful of vital federal trial courts, such as the Eastern District of Virginia and the Southern District of Manhattan, where sensitive proceedings in national security cases are conducted. The final government component (and possibly last in precedence among the formal branches of government established by the Constitution) is a kind of rump Congress consisting of the congressional leadership and some (but not all) of the members of the defense and intelligence committees. The rest of Congress, normally so fractious and partisan, is mostly only intermittently aware of the Deep State and when required usually submits to a few well-chosen words from the State’s emissaries.

http://billmoyers.com/2014/02/21/ana...he-deep-state/

So, if it was around as recently as 2014, I guess it's still around now, right?

bobabode 03-07-2017 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whell (Post 349889)
Sorry, that term is "old news". Its use pre-dates Trump and the 2016 election. Here's an example from one of your pal bloggers at HuffPo, describing the deep state as he saw it in 2011:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-t...b_3569316.html

Bill Moyers seemed to be able to find it again in 2014, and was apparently aware of it when he worked as a congressional staffer:

The Deep State does not consist of the entire government. It is a hybrid of national security and law enforcement agencies: the Department of Defense, the Department of State, the Department of Homeland Security, the Central Intelligence Agency and the Justice Department. I also include the Department of the Treasury because of its jurisdiction over financial flows, its enforcement of international sanctions and its organic symbiosis with Wall Street. All these agencies are coordinated by the Executive Office of the President via the National Security Council. Certain key areas of the judiciary belong to the Deep State, such as the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, whose actions are mysterious even to most members of Congress. Also included are a handful of vital federal trial courts, such as the Eastern District of Virginia and the Southern District of Manhattan, where sensitive proceedings in national security cases are conducted. The final government component (and possibly last in precedence among the formal branches of government established by the Constitution) is a kind of rump Congress consisting of the congressional leadership and some (but not all) of the members of the defense and intelligence committees. The rest of Congress, normally so fractious and partisan, is mostly only intermittently aware of the Deep State and when required usually submits to a few well-chosen words from the State’s emissaries.

http://billmoyers.com/2014/02/21/ana...he-deep-state/

So, if it was around as recently as 2014, I guess it's still around now, right?

Why stop there? Ike warned everyone about the MIC back in '59, IIRC. :rolleyes:

finnbow 03-07-2017 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whell (Post 349889)
So, if it was around as recently as 2014, I guess it's still around now, right?

It seems to me that Moyers' piece states the obvious (and reflects what I posted above that everybody below the top political levels at Federal agencies are there before a new President arrives and remain after he leaves (by design, might I add)). In other words, without the experience and institutional knowledge of career professionals, there would be nobody left to run the agencies because the political appointees are largely figureheads (do you really believe that Ben Carson and Rick Perry know the slightest thing about their respective agencies?)

Trump's take on it, however, are the ramblings of a paranoid, uniformed lunatic.

Tom Joad 03-07-2017 01:36 PM

The Deep State is real and it's very dangerous.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-st...-a7616031.html

Quote:

It includes software that could allow people to take control of the most popular consumer electronics products used today, claimed WikiLeaks.

"'Year Zero' introduces the scope and direction of the CIA's global covert hacking program, its malware arsenal and dozens of "zero day" weaponized exploits against a wide range of U.S. and European company products, include Apple's iPhone, Google's Android and Microsoft's Windows and even Samsung TVs, which are turned into covert microphones," the organisation said in a release.

finnbow 03-07-2017 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Joad (Post 349909)
The Deep State is real and it's very dangerous.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-st...-a7616031.html

You obviously have no understanding of what the "Deep State" is.

whell 03-07-2017 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finnbow (Post 349905)
It seems to me that Moyers' piece states the obvious (and reflects what I posted above that everybody below the top political levels at Federal agencies are there before a new President arrives and remain after he leaves (by design, might I add)). In other words, without the experience and institutional knowledge of career professionals, there would be nobody left to run the agencies because the political appointees are largely figureheads (do you really believe that Ben Carson and Rick Perry know the slightest thing about their respective agencies?)

Trump's take on it, however, are the ramblings of a paranoid, uniformed lunatic.

So you're suggesting that Moyers agrees with you? That the "deep State" really is, as you put it, nothing more that the "career professionals" inside government agencies? :confused:

I'm pretty sure that NOT what Moyers is saying here, for example:

[I]We are faced with two disagreeable implications. First, that the Deep State is so heavily entrenched, so well protected by surveillance, firepower, money and its ability to co-opt resistance that it is almost impervious to change. Second, that just as in so many previous empires, the Deep State is populated with those whose instinctive reaction to the failure of their policies is to double down on those very policies in the future. Iraq was a failure briefly camouflaged by the wholly propagandistic success of the so-called surge; this legerdemain allowed for the surge in Afghanistan, which equally came to naught. Undeterred by that failure, the functionaries of the Deep State plunged into Libya; the smoking rubble of the Benghazi consulate, rather than discouraging further misadventure, seemed merely to incite the itch to bomb Syria. [/I

EDIT: the essay is by Mike Lofgren, not Moyers, but appears on Moyer's web site.

finnbow 03-07-2017 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whell (Post 349917)
So you're suggesting that Moyers agrees with you? That the "deep State" really is, as you put it, nothing more that the "career professionals" inside government agencies? :confused:

I'm pretty sure that NOT what Moyers is saying here, for example:

We are faced with two disagreeable implications. First, that the Deep State is so heavily entrenched, so well protected by surveillance, firepower, money and its ability to co-opt resistance that it is almost impervious to change. Second, that just as in so many previous empires, the Deep State is populated with those whose instinctive reaction to the failure of their policies is to double down on those very policies in the future. Iraq was a failure briefly camouflaged by the wholly propagandistic success of the so-called surge; this legerdemain allowed for the surge in Afghanistan, which equally came to naught. Undeterred by that failure, the functionaries of the Deep State plunged into Libya; the smoking rubble of the Benghazi consulate, rather than discouraging further misadventure, seemed merely to incite the itch to bomb Syria.

I'm not a Moyers fan, a person I find to be a far left alarmist for the most part. I'll watch some of his feature shows on PBS, knowing full well the POV he has.

I disagree with his point above. Those screw-ups he notes were not the fault of the "Deep State." They were the fault of the political leaders in power at the time. Blaming the Iraq War or our Libya misadventures on the Deep State is a cop-out for those who held political power.

whell 03-07-2017 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finnbow (Post 349925)
I'm not a Moyers fan, a person I find to be a far left alarmist for the most part. I'll watch some of his feature shows on PBS, knowing full well the POV he has.

I disagree with his point above. Those screw-ups he notes were not the fault of the "Deep State." They were the fault of the political leaders in power at the time. Blaming the Iraq War or our Libya misadventures on the Deep State is a cop-out for those who held political power.

So you agreed with him until you disagreed with him???

By the way, it was the "deep state" folks - at least the article defines them - that assured Bush that the intel on Iraq was "a slam dunk".

Not to get off track here, but it was my point - in opposition to the OP - that the term "deep state" was not somehow an invention of the current admin or its flack catchers. It has been around a while, and likely comes from the Turk expression "derin devlet", so it's likely not a term that even has its origin in the US.

finnbow 03-07-2017 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whell (Post 349937)
So you agreed with him until you disagreed with him???

By the way, it was the "deep state" folks - at least the article defines them - that assured Bush that the intel on Iraq was "a slam dunk".

No, it wasn't. It was CIA Director George Tenet, a political appointee, along with a cabal of other political appointees (e.g., Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz). The career analysts in the CIA was highly skeptical of Dubya's claims, but were overridden by the Dubya administration (refer to Downing St. memo and the Valerie Plame affair).

whell 03-07-2017 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finnbow (Post 349941)
No, it wasn't. It was CIA Director George Tenet, a political appointee, along with a cabal of other political appointees (e.g., Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz). The career analysts in the CIA was highly skeptical of Dubya's claims, but were overridden by the Dubya administration (refer to Downing St. memo and the Valerie Plame affair).

Nope.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...=.1559ad888c15

nailer 03-07-2017 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whell (Post 349937)
So you agreed with him until you disagreed with him???

In a way you forced him to disagree with himself. :D

finnbow 03-07-2017 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whell (Post 349946)

Typical CYA (or CIA) revisionism. Any assertion that the Bush administration was dragged, kicking and screaming, by low level CIA analysts into the Iraq War is pure ahistorical bullshit.

BlueStreak 03-07-2017 04:30 PM

I remember Bush mentioning the possibility of going to war, people cheering and Bush grinning like a Cheshire Cat. He enjoyed it. Sending thousands of American soldiers to their deaths brought him joy. If that isn't evil, what is?

BlueStreak 03-07-2017 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finnbow (Post 349914)
You obviously have no understanding of what the "Deep State" is.

What were you expecting?

BlueStreak 03-07-2017 04:38 PM

I understand what Finn is saying when explained the"Deep State" as it exists. What these idiots at Fartbreight peddling is something entirely different. More bullshit Republican fear mongering.

finnbow 03-07-2017 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueStreak (Post 349960)
I understand what Finn is saying when explained the"Deep State" as it exists. What these idiots at Fartbreight peddling is something entirely different. More bullshit Republican fear mongering.

Indeed. The notion that Obama is still leading a shadow government is ridiculous fear-mongering and a cover-up for Trump's incompetence and dishonesty. It is certainly true that a number of government professionals are appalled by Trump's dishonesty, incompetence and malice, some so much that they become leakers and whistle-blowers (as in every administration).

whell 03-07-2017 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finnbow (Post 349948)
Typical CYA (or CIA) revisionism. Any assertion that the Bush administration was dragged, kicking and screaming, by low level CIA analysts into the Iraq War is pure ahistorical bullshit.

...and by a deep state guy no less....:rolleyes:

whell 03-07-2017 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finnbow (Post 349961)
Indeed. The notion that Obama is still leading a shadow government is ridiculous fear-mongering and a cover-up for Trump's incompetence and dishonesty. It is certainly true that a number of government professionals are appalled by Trump's dishonesty, incompetence and malice, some so much that they become leakers and whistle-blowers (as in every administration).

Really? I thought it was just a month ago that folks were warning not to screw with these career gov't types in the CIA because they were going to "get even with him" after Trump supposedly insulted them. The"bureaucracy has power" we were told.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rZt...ature=youtu.be

You guys on the left need to get your stories straight. :rolleyes:

Tom Joad 03-07-2017 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finnbow (Post 349948)
Any assertion that the Bush administration was dragged, kicking and screaming, by low level CIA analysts into the Iraq War is pure ahistorical bullshit.

GS 15's do what they are told.

They have kid's tuition, othodontists bills, big mortages (have you sen the real estate prices in the DC area) and retirement to save for.

finnbow 03-07-2017 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Joad (Post 349971)
GS 15's do what they are told.

They have kid's tuition, othodontists bills, big mortages (have you seen the real estate prices in the DC area) and retirement to save for.

I did all of the above and always spoke truth to power. I've also been involved in investigations of malfeasance/corruption exposed by internal whistle-blowers. It takes guts to be a whistle-blower or leaker and they're generally few in number due to the risk one takes on to do so. OTOH, Trump instability, incompetence and irrationality are considered by many to be a threat to the country and they're acting accordingly. If he's clean, he'll be fine (and far fewer of them would exist). Otherwise, they'll eat his lunch.;)

donquixote99 03-07-2017 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Joad (Post 349971)
GS 15's do what they are told.

They have kid's tuition, othodontists bills, big mortages (have you sen the real estate prices in the DC area) and retirement to save for.

So they are told. They don't do the telling. Right?

It was Bush's war, not the GS-15's war, right?

BigElCat 10-18-2019 11:04 AM

My awareness of the 'deep state' goes back to 1983, when I attended a lecture by this guy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_S...l_(CIA_officer)

My latest read was Snowden's autobiography.

When I say Trump is a puppet / figurehead of unseen forces, I don't mean to exonerate the man. I'm not fear mongering, just telling what I think is going to happen. It all makes sense to me, the withdrawal of US troops from Syria, the release of ISIS terrorists. The whole War On Terror is a fabrication. The CIA made Bin Laden what he was. Trump's in office, apparently to me, because they wanted or felt they needed a clown.

BigElCat 10-18-2019 11:28 AM

IMHO, the bipartisan dog and pony show is just there to project an image, an illusion.

And this is how things really get done...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octobe...spiracy_theory

Carter was the last one that wasn't a puppet.

Pio1980 10-18-2019 01:27 PM

WTF is the "deep state"?
Praesontiert! (Here it is!)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep..._United_States

Pio1980 10-18-2019 02:00 PM

It doesn't need a "deep state" for the administrative infrastructure to counter Trump's inept bombastic corrosive incompetence, it just takes common sense with a healthy patriotic intent for the welfare of the Nation.

BigElCat 10-19-2019 08:53 AM

I believe there is a shadow government, a deeper strata to the Deep State as described in Wikipedia. Call them the Illuminati, or the New World Order, or whatever.

I think of them as being 'the Gog'. The Biblical/allegorical descendants of Magog. Their long range mission is to foment the Battle of Armageddon. Until then, they bring people to positions of power and prominence.

Dondilion 10-19-2019 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigElCat (Post 380694)
I believe there is a shadow government, a deeper strata to the Deep State as described in Wikipedia. Call them the Illuminati, or the New World Order, or whatever.

I think of them as being 'the Gog'. The Biblical/allegorical descendants of Magog. Their long range mission is to foment the Battle of Armageddon. Until then, they bring people to positions of power and prominence.

Way out! Far out!

This reads like sci-fi.

finnbow 10-19-2019 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigElCat (Post 380694)
I believe there is a shadow government...

They're called career federal employees who do their work apolitically and are indispensable to the operations of government. Can you imagine a government run exclusively by appointed MAGAMorons?

BigElCat 10-19-2019 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finnbow (Post 380697)
They're called career federal employees who do their work apolitically and are indispensable to the operations of government. Can you imagine a government run exclusively by appointed MAGAMorons?

I understand what you're saying.

This is sort of a goofy analogy, but those people are the top layer beneath the floating pyramid.

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.C...95&w=154&h=114

I think there is a group in the floating pyramid.

BigElCat 10-19-2019 11:32 AM

And the elected politicians, the publicly seen figureheads, are pulled up through the lower pyramid to the top layer. They don't get to be in the club, the little floaty pyramid group, but they're duped into thinking that they are.

That privilege is a blood rite, it's in the DNA. I could tell who they are, but I could get sued or worse.

Chicks 10-21-2019 06:14 PM

Bill Barr’s Plan to Rig 2020 for Trump: Frame ‘Deep State’ for Russia’s 2016 Interference
As always, what Trump says is the direct opposite of the truth, and he is describing not his opponents but himself. The “deep state” story is Trumpland’s Plan B.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/bill-b...6-interference

Barr is a criminal, in charge of Justice. Dog help us all.

BigElCat 10-22-2019 02:18 AM

That strategy might work.

I think Trump does listen to his handlers in the Defense Intelligence Agency.

If we bomb the shit out of Iran, people would be flying Old Glory on their vehicles, and wearing MAGA hats.

It's a sickness, but IMHO, Satan is the ruler of this world.

BigElCat 10-22-2019 02:37 AM

Now here's where we can argue, my paranoid conspiracy nonsense.

Pearl Harbor...intentional sacrifice.

Gulf of Tonkin...false flag

USS Liberty...attempted false flag Cause Belli...stopped by an Israeli torpedo boat Captain who refused to sink the Liberty. That Jew is my personal Hero. I'm not anti-semitic. I'll look for documentation / video of this.

World Trade Center...inside job.

Pio1980 10-22-2019 08:06 AM

I take a face value/ "Occam's razor" view on 9-11. The simplest direct explanation is usually the correct assessment.

The alternate theories tend to be complex convoluted constructs leading to a cabal of baby snacking satanists or somesuch, and demand too much reality denial belief preconditioning.

donquixote99 10-22-2019 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pio1980 (Post 380784)
I take a face value/ "Occam's razor" view on 9-11. The simplest direct explanation is usually the correct assessment.

The alternate theories tend to be complex convoluted constructs leading to a cabal of baby snacking satanists or somesuch, and demand too much reality denial belief preconditioning.

He will accuse you in turn of 'reality' acceptance preconditioning, but I am with you.


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